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  • Hatamoto & FFA Jeopardise Supporter Safety at Sydney Derby


    mack

    Hatamoto have gone against world best practice with their decision to hold back Western Sydney supporters at the conclusion of the first ever Sydney Derby.

     

    The move has sparked anger among the supporter group the Red & Black Bloc. It is against world-wide practice and will lead to confusion and potential safety issues. With the Derby being considered a 'high risk' match in terms of security and police arrangements the FFA's security agency Hatamoto have made a decision to keep the entire Wanderers active support bay inside the stadium for 30 minutes after the match.

     

    While the gates will not be locked, Hatamoto have advised the supporters that they will be labelled 'non-conformist' should they attempt to leave. The counter-terror security agency have threatened that supporters who leave the ground before Hatamoto desire them to will be targeted by their security. Hatamoto have indicated that even a minor 'offence' such as crossing a street without security approval could lead to being detained and/or being banned from A-League matches. There have also been threats made that jeopardise future supporter marches and other supporter group events. This is a grave insult to people who have put their hard earned money as well as their time and effort into this club, at such a vital time for the club.

     

    The decision has said to have been made due to 'logistics' reasons. The FFA believe that when the Wanderers win the match, the supporters in the Red & Black Bloc will prefer to stay inside the bay to celebrate rather than making their way to their home pub. The FFA have planned some minor events to take place during this 30 minute dead zone. Hatamoto will be stationing security guards to discourage people from moving about. It is also important to note that the Red & Black Bloc are located in an end that is not exclusively for active support. Only three of the bays are active support. It will mean Hatamoto guards will be preventing families, many with young children, from leaving the stadium on time. The Wanderers club have sided with their supporters and pushed for the away fans to stay inside the stadium but as the Wanderers only rent the stadium their hands are tied by the FFA, Stadium, Police and Hatamoto.

     

    Matt Adamson spent 4 years in a senior management position at one of Europe's leading crowd management companies. He has vast experience with contracts involving the largest clubs in the world and I asked for his thoughts on the issue of crowd control at football matches, "There are two common methods for safe egress of supporters at the conclusion of a football match that is deemed high risk. The first is to hold back away fans while the home fans disperse. This has been utilised previously at A-League fixtures in Newcastle, Melbourne & Gosford and is the standard procedure throughout Europe. The other method is to segregate fans via the use of designated entry/exit gates and temporary fencing to serve as a physical barrier.

     

    "I believe that the current position of Hatamoto and their recommendations for the management of the crowd at the Sydney derby are reflective of a skill-set that is not compatible with football. They ignore the passions and expectations of fans. It is ignorant of accepted traditions and widely accepted practices in managing football crowds safely.

     

    "Hatamoto is taking the opposite approach and attitude towards this fixture than what I observed during my time in European football. While I have no doubt that Hatamoto are experts in counter-terrorism, they have a lot to learn about football."

     

    A listing of matches, countries and leagues which follow the home supporters first doctrine would be endless. The doctrine is accepted best practice and is commonplace worldwide. Throughout all levels of league football, cup matches, derby, non-derby, continental and international matches away supporters are kept behind. This method is in practice for the A-League as well. Sydney FC supporters would already be expecting to stay behind for a period of time and many would have operated under the condition in previous away matches such as those in Gosford, Newcastle and Melbourne. In general the vast majority of away supporters at a match will be in the away bays and they will stick together until they leave the stadium. Home supporters could be in many different stands even if they come to the stadium as a group, and locking in groups of home supporters will mean people hanging around the stadium waiting for the rest of their group. Keeping away fans in their bay enables security to spend more time preparing for the exit of the away supporters as well as enabling potentially aggressive supporters of the home team to be pushed away from the stadium.

     

    Western Sydney Supporters spokesman Sean Herrett spoke to WestSydneyFootball.Com about the situation, "The Parramatta police are not sure what to expect. They are not football educated. The Chief Inspector of Parramatta LAC was unaware of the practice of away supporters being kept in their bays after the match. The officer who was in charge for the first round match is no longer involved and appears not to have passed on any knowledge and information to the replacement officer."

     

    This turn of events is disappointing for supporters of football in Australia. Active support groups have spent years trying to educate the police and security forces in regards to the best way to enable safe active support and the safe exit of supporters regardless of what team they followed. While the A-League is being advertised by the slogan 'We Are Football' it is necessary to remind those who 'are not yet football' what the best practices are in situations that crop up dozens of times every year in world football. Over zealous security and police responses have a chilling effect on the active support culture that enables football to generate atmosphere unmatched by any other code of sport in Australia. It is up to the police and security to get educated and to listen to supporter groups and those with experience in football crowd management. With Melbourne Victory advising their fans not to travel to 'high risk' matches due to over zealous security treatment, as well as police brutality against Sydney United supporters in a Wanderers pre-season fixture, it is clear that security and police forces have yet to truly understand active support culture. NSW Police, and the Parramatta Local Area Command in particular have shown a desire to become educated and to understand the situation to enable safe conduct for all parties in regards to Western Sydney Wanderers matches. Hatamoto has not.

     

    Hatamoto are still refusing to engage with football supporters and are failing to educate their own leadership about football culture. Such issues have been raised as long as Hatamoto have been involved with the A-League. In 2009 Hatamoto were exposed for attempting to infiltrate supporters groups with undercover security guards. In 2011 questions were raised as to why a counter-terrorism company would be involved with football as well what qualifications the leaders of Hatamoto had to dictate security procedures for football matches.

     

    Sean Herrett talked about his dealings with Hatamoto, "I personally spoke with Peter Shepherd from Hatamoto. Mr Shepherd is aware of our anger over the situation, but has dismissed our concerns due to his experience over the past 5 years in dealing with A-League supporter groups. Mr Shepherd also refused to continue with direct dialogue and instead demanded all discussion to go through middlemen at the FFA."

     

    When the security group are the only group unwilling to directly discuss the situation with the supporters group, can anyone blame the supporter groups for their distrust of Hatamoto? Hatamoto work to stereotype and exaggerate the 'threat' that supporters group have to the A-League brand and the safety of other patrons to A-League matches. Hatamoto are the only group who must continually justify their existence and input into the A-League. The police have a duty to the public. The FFA run the competition. The supporters want to support their team and watch the matches. The players play in these matches. The club participate in the competition. If Hatamoto cannot justify their existence in the A-League they will lose their lucrative contracts. In a way it makes sense that they would refuse to engage. By refusing to engage it enables them to suggest to the FFA that their job will never be complete and to avoid humanising their 'targets'. The problem is that refusal to engage puts the supporters at risk of over-zealous security guards.

     

    In the first round match against the Central Coast Mariners the only piece of crowd trouble came from a group of people not from the Red & Black Bloc. They had tickets and/or memberships for the section of the ground next to the away bay. Should they desire to cause trouble again they could cause a major problem by attacking Sydney FC fans who are let out at the same time as they are, while the security is focused on keeping the Red & Black Bloc penned inside the home end.

     

    The obvious solution is holding the Sydney FC fans in their bay as per standard worldwide practice so that all Western Sydney Wanderers supporters can disperse and leave the vicinity of the stadium. 30 minutes later this would be followed by police and security escorting the Sydney FC fans to Parramatta Station. Instead Hatamoto have decided on a patch-work solution that will only exacerbate the potential for trouble instead of reducing it.

     

    Football Federation Australia must remember that it is not Peter Shepherd and Hatamoto who run football in Australia or the A-League. It is Frank Lowy, Ben Buckley and Damien de Bohun. They must remind themselves that the reason they run football is for the supporters of the game, not for the bank balance of a secretive counter-terrorist security company looking for their next contract.

     

    The Western Sydney Wanderers, Football Federation Australia, Hatamoto, the Red & Black Bloc and NSW Police are still in negotiations to determine the final security arrangements and we hope to bring positive news on that front.

     

    The Sydney Derby will be played at 7:45pm on Saturday the 20th of October at Parramatta Stadium. The match has sold out to the general public. Membership and Corporate tickets are still available but in limited numbers.


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    Recommended Comments



    Trojan

    Posted

    Hatamoto, Seccies, parramatta police, ffa, wanderers fc as a club have no ****ing idea..

     

    All a bunch of morons..

     

    Nowhere else in the world would they even think about letting away supporters with the rest of the home crowd..

     

    There might be rogue groups in the stands, get taken outside with the wanderers + esfc and bam.. Esfc fans get their heads kicked in and its all over the news..

    Even if there are rogue western sydney boys waiting for esfc fans outside the stadium.. Esfc fan will be the first to know about it..

     

    But if you get rid of the home end with home supporters and neturals first.. Police escort them away from the grounds.. You eliminate the problem..

    Keep the away fans in their bays for 30mins -1hr ..

    Police wait for streets to be cleared.. Esfc is escorted to the station..

     

    Job done..

     

    Lollll they are so naive.

     

    by doing this.. Ffa and police place esfc fans in more danger than if they get held back lol

     

    Bunch of spastics.

    montywoodpeg

    Posted

    Lollll they are so naive.

     

    by doing this.. Ffa and police place esfc fans in more danger than if they get held back lol

     

    Bunch of spastics.

     

    So true. So very true.

    Borogz

    Posted

    What a great way for the club to isolate supporters. I hope that is made very clear to them. All the goodwill will be gone and distrust of all management will be there in its place.

    MarcelFC

    Posted

    Wtf is this ****?

    Trojan

    Posted

    The trouble might not loom from the rbb but the boys in parra cbd ;)

     

    Lol at this "saga"

     

    .

     

    Clear the home supporters . Clear the streets. Escort away supporters..

     

    Problem solved

     

    ge0rge10

    Posted

    Can't believe I've just read this. Sounds like the biggest load of rubbish ever. Whoever came up with this idea should be sacked!! I doesn't even take a lot of intelligence to realise that holding back the away fans is what should be done! What happens when we arrive back to the Woolpack and its already full of SFC fans!?!

    Kizza

    Posted

    So what stops RBB guys from walking 1 bay over when the game ends? I assume they'll be holding back the entire area behind the goals to stop that? They're going to need a lot of guards to hold in all those people....especially with the police getting called away for all the **** thats gonna happen outside. At least they can't blame us then huh?

    Neverbloom

    Posted

    this is kinda not a great idea, the A-league has come so far but then something like this happens

    Davo

    Posted (edited)

    I wonder if this is going to become standard practice for 'high risk' matches this season or if it's just for this match? Does anyone know if this is what happened at the Melbourne derby in round 1? Are the Cove going to be held back after the derby at Allianz?

     

    So far the RBB hasn't caused any trouble and the only issues the club has had are the work of knuckle dragger's who have nothing to do with the supporters group, ie the gobshites at Campbelltown and the morons that bothered the Mariners supporters after the game. If these people aren't part of the home end then they're the ones that are going to be let out with the away supporters. At least the RBB will have an alibi if something happens...

     

    Hatamoto are in a strange position in all this which Mack touched on. If they do their job perfectly then there'd be no need for them and they'd be out of a job. If anything, it's in their best interests that there is a small amount of violence as it justifies their existence.

     

    The problem is if there is violence then Hatamoto have the ammunition to keep the match classed as 'high risk' and implement even stricter security measures. If nothing happens then they'll claim their plan worked and keep doing it this way. Either way we lose.

    Edited by Davo
    Benched

    Posted

    Guy's, I hope this gives a bit of an insight into what we are dealing with.

     

    In all fairness, the Club and the Police are very sympathetic to our cause.

    I am expecting more dialogue tomorrow and hopefully we come to the obvious conclusion.

     

    I don't want everyone to start freaking out just yet. If tomorrow the stance hasn't changed, well I think there'll be issues.

     

    BTW, ultimately, if our CAPO's elect to leave first, we are leaving first. End of.

    Burztur

    Posted

    Does this mean that trouble makers that don't sit in the active support areas will be let out to cause problems while most of the security will be spent watching the active bays? That's just counter productive...

    Benched

    Posted

    ^^^^^ spot on

    WesternPlains

    Posted

    There wasn't any trouble with Sydney and Newcastle fans after the game on the weekend. The reason measures like this are happening is because the Wanderers fans have not had the chance to prove their good behaviour yet. Sydney FC fans are known to be reasonably behaved and its a trust thats been built up over quite a few years. You will earn the same trust in a few years but because of the *unknown* factor and the scares of the silliness of the pre-season, its a sad but maybe sensible decision.

    Kizza

    Posted (edited)

    There wasn't any trouble with Sydney and Newcastle fans after the game on the weekend. The reason measures like this are happening is because the Wanderers fans have not had the chance to prove their good behaviour yet. Sydney FC fans are known to be reasonably behaved and its a trust thats been built up over quite a few years. You will earn the same trust in a few years but because of the *unknown* factor and the scares of the silliness of the pre-season, its a sad but maybe sensible decision.

     

    Thats all well and good but they're only blocking off less than a quarter (?) of WSW fans....so overall its stupid to hold back the home team fans,

    Edited by Kizza
    Benched

    Posted

    I think it's an insult and it's creating a problem that would not have existed.

     

    Talk about build tension.

     

    Seriously, one of the most amateur things I've seen. Just ridiculous.

    Our home end will have about 2500 people in it as well.

    WesternPlains

    Posted

    There wasn't any trouble with Sydney and Newcastle fans after the game on the weekend. The reason measures like this are happening is because the Wanderers fans have not had the chance to prove their good behaviour yet. Sydney FC fans are known to be reasonably behaved and its a trust thats been built up over quite a few years. You will earn the same trust in a few years but because of the *unknown* factor and the scares of the silliness of the pre-season, its a sad but maybe sensible decision.

     

    Thats all well and good but they're only blocking off less than a quarter (?) of WSW fans....so overall its stupid to hold back to home team.

     

    It is probably due to the fact that there will be more Sydney FC fans than WSW fans, makes more sense to keep the lesser number in a little longer while the others disperse and head off.

    Borogz

    Posted (edited)

    There wasn't any trouble with Sydney and Newcastle fans after the game on the weekend. The reason measures like this are happening is because the Wanderers fans have not had the chance to prove their good behaviour yet. Sydney FC fans are known to be reasonably behaved and its a trust thats been built up over quite a few years. You will earn the same trust in a few years but because of the *unknown* factor and the scares of the silliness of the pre-season, its a sad but maybe sensible decision.

     

    Thats all well and good but they're only blocking off less than a quarter (?) of WSW fans....so overall its stupid to hold back to home team.

     

    It is probably due to the fact that there will be more Sydney FC fans than WSW fans, makes more sense to keep the lesser number in a little longer while the others disperse and head off.

     

     

     

    Troll

    Edited by Borogz
    RBBKopite

    Posted

    We all know that WesternPlains is an East Sydney FC Hakoah troll. Don't feed it and it will go away.

    Kizza

    Posted

    Just hope you aren't one of the unlucky Sydney fans caught outside by crazy and unruly WSW fans who escaped from the grandstand and go looking for trouble. Then we'll see how sensible the decision is.

    WesternPlains

    Posted

    There wasn't any trouble with Sydney and Newcastle fans after the game on the weekend. The reason measures like this are happening is because the Wanderers fans have not had the chance to prove their good behaviour yet. Sydney FC fans are known to be reasonably behaved and its a trust thats been built up over quite a few years. You will earn the same trust in a few years but because of the *unknown* factor and the scares of the silliness of the pre-season, its a sad but maybe sensible decision.

     

    Thats all well and good but they're only blocking off less than a quarter (?) of WSW fans....so overall its stupid to hold back to home team.

     

    It is probably due to the fact that there will be more Sydney FC fans than WSW fans, makes more sense to keep the lesser number in a little longer while the others disperse and head off.

     

     

     

    Troll

     

    There is nothing trolling about it. By sheer weight of membership numbers, speed of ticket sales, and general fanbase obviously the numbers will be in the favour of Sydney FC this season. Its great your support is so passionate and its the start of very good things but you must realise that you're the smaller fanbase this season and it will be reflecting in the makeup of the crowds. It's not an insult its just a fact of the matter.

    Neverbloom

    Posted

    as much as i would love to say WSW have more fans than fc not at the moment we dont but still a very stupid thing to do imo

    montywoodpeg

    Posted

    There wasn't any trouble with Sydney and Newcastle fans after the game on the weekend. The reason measures like this are happening is because the Wanderers fans have not had the chance to prove their good behaviour yet. Sydney FC fans are known to be reasonably behaved and its a trust thats been built up over quite a few years. You will earn the same trust in a few years but because of the *unknown* factor and the scares of the silliness of the pre-season, its a sad but maybe sensible decision.

     

    Thats all well and good but they're only blocking off less than a quarter (?) of WSW fans....so overall its stupid to hold back to home team.

     

    It is probably due to the fact that there will be more Sydney FC fans than WSW fans, makes more sense to keep the lesser number in a little longer while the others disperse and head off.

     

    There's some sense in speculating toward that end, but I would predict the away supporters are more compressed. The home supporters can be more spread around the stadium, by holding in only one section of the home support that means the entire SFC support will depart at the same time as the rest of the home supporters.

     

    Seemingly, if my assumption is true, holding back the away support bays means the whole of the home support will depart before some 80% of the away support leaves.

    Benched

    Posted

    W Plains wtf is the point of that comment.

     

    So that justifies Hatamoto releasing an entire stadium of WSW fans alongside the Cove.

     

    To be honest, if I was in the Cove now, I'd be a bit concerned.

    Borogz

    Posted

    W Plains wtf is the point of that comment.

     

    So that justifies Hatamoto releasing an entire stadium of WSW fans alongside the Cove.

     

    To be honest, if I was in the Cove now, I'd be a bit concerned.

     

    As a non RBB member I am concerned about leaving the same time as the cove.

    WesternPlains

    Posted

    I believe everyone, Cove fans, Sydney FC fans elsewhere in the stadium, RBB fans, Wanderer fans elsewhere in the stadium, will all be behaved enough. Everyone does the right thing, security stand around just with not a lot to do, they'll downgrade the "emergency" for next game. It's the best way to rectify this game situation whether it be right or wrong. It's up to all us fans to prove security wrong by not making any troubles.

     

    No one in the Cove is worried. They all want to go to the game, enjoy the experience, then head off. I'm sure RBB are the same.

    Benched

    Posted

    No one in the Cove is worried.

     

    That's not what your forumites are saying.

    WesternPlains

    Posted

    No one in the Cove is worried.

     

    That's not what your forumites are saying.

     

    If some people are worried, will you give them reason to be worried again? Or will you prove their worries unfounded in the end? The behaviour of your club fans is a big deal for this first match. The Sydney FC fans too, but its up to the WS fans to really show they can control themselves in their home environment and prove to everyone (fans, securities, media) that the worries were unfounded.

     

    It's not a war to enter into, like Melbourne Victory with security. It's a teamwork to provide a great night out for everyone.

    Kizza

    Posted

    Our concern is that last game the slight trouble that was caused was by a small group who sat over near the away bay, not anywhere near the RBB....

     

    If that was to occur again, the RBB of course can blatantly deny any wrong doing, but the club and league will still cop a negative wrap if the incident is bad enough (people may also be injured) to make news headlines. We've had enough experiences in our short history of a few bad eggs trying to ruin it for the rest.

    Benched

    Posted

    Western Plains, you are not naive enough to think among'st 21000 people there won't be one dickhead?

    WesternPlains

    Posted (edited)

    The RBB might be the active support group, if WSW fans from elsewhere in the stadium cause problems its not your problem or duty, it's the job of the club to sort out fans who are misbehaving. If RBB self polices, then you will be fine. The club suffers from bad behaviour of its fans, naturally, but I am sure the misbehaving fans will never be from RBB.

     

    Benched I'm not naive. Of course some SYdney FC fans will be dickheads, and WS fans too.

     

    But none of you have to, lead the example for your own fans by being passionate and sensible. On this forum can't be spoken for everyone, but can be spoken to all the people reading this.

    Edited by WesternPlains



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