Margush Madness

I think Western United keeper gave away a goal through losing control on a back pass recently 

3 hours ago, Sithslayer1991 said:

Looks like a GK will be one of our main signings next season. Just hope its not wasted on a foreign spot.

Unless I am mistaken a foreign spot will not be required...

7 hours ago, BoyFromTheWest said:

2 positives  (setting a low bar!):

 1. We were infinitely better against Roar this time round. Last game against Roar was the absolutely woeful. It was the very worst I can remember us playing. I think it was CR's swansong.

2. At least we weren't part of the huge loss/got really thumped brigade this round. Some extraordinary scores.

Wow that's a low bar

1. We were better but not much, that was an absolute terrible game of football. We were total dross

2. It's coming isn't it? We are due to get totally smashed soon

1 hour ago, Smoggy said:

And yet Lopar was one of the best players to pull on a WSW jersey in my opinion and is a God in his own country / former club. 

I don't want to use a foreign spot for a keeper either particularly but some of the debate and opinions on keepers on WSF have been truly bizarre these last few years.

The club approach to the position has been equally shambolic.

And if anyone speaks with Lopar or Mejias first I doubt any international keeper of any renown would want to come here anyway.

I sense Mejias already has his house packed up and mind more than half moved on weeks ago. I hope he plays some blinders between now and season end IF he plays...that would be his best 1 finger fairwell.

I don't get this don't waste a foriegn spot on a 'keeper? yet people are cool with a foriegn right back or left back. Surely your 'keeper directly influence's more results than most players.

Our problem is not that we went for a keeper it's that we have got 4 out of the 5 foriegn spots wrong, and the one we got right is injured all the time. 

You don't need a top quality keeper to win A-League titles now, they just need to avoid mistakes that cost you points against the other top 4 teams and in the finals. SFC won all their recent ones with Andrew Redmayne, one of the worst keepers to get regular game time in the A-League, and City are winning theirs with Tom Glover who has some serious flaws and Victory had Lawrence Thomas who is better than those first two but still not the same level as Vukovic, Galekovic, Covic or Ryan.

We have the 2nd worst attacking record in the league and the 4th worst defensive one, and there's only slight improvements under Rudan. Our average losing margin has gone from 2 under Robinson to 1.33 under Rudan, our goal difference is -2 under Rudan where it was -5 in this season's Robinson games (and +1 for his first season).

A foreign keeper would be a huge luxury when we don't have a team capable of solid play on either side of the outfield.

If I were Rudan my foreign signings would go towards a striker to replace Hemed, a central defender, Rodwell if he stays and the last two spots on an attacking midfielder like Berenguer/Penha/Davila/Urena and a goal-scoring winger Leckie or Nabbout.

I don't necessarily have a problem with using a visa spot for a goalkeeper, but they have to be significantly better than anyone available locally (e.g. Lopar). I remember looking this up at the start of the season and I think the only trophy won with a foreign keeper in the A-League era is one FFA Cup that City got with Sorensen in 2016. Traditionally teams have done better with 5 outfield visa players. In my opinion Mejias is a better keeper than Margush, and we should have been playing him all season. I also think he isn't enough of an improvement on local keepers to be worth the visa spot.

I looked up the stats for expected goals on target (xGOT) that we conceded, as it removes shots the off target and blocked shots that clutter up xG when looking at keepers. Basically it's shots that are either either saved or are goals. If you compare the xGOT conceded per 90 mins to the number of non-own goals conceded per 90 minutes it gives a pretty good indication of the keepers performance.

Based on that Mejias concedes 0.088 less goals per 90 mins than expected based on the shots on target that he's faced. For Margush it's 0.086. So by that measure they're basically as good as each other, and pretty close to the league average of 0.06. I didn't include the Roar game as it skews the stats a little against Mejias, he was only on for a couple of minutes and the first thing he had to do was face a penalty.

For comparison, the Mariners have the best keeping performance, conceding 0.37 less goals than expected per 90 mins, and the Jets have the worst conceding 0.23 more than expected per 90 mins.. I haven't broken them down by keeper, although Birighitti has played 19 of their 20 games, and Duncan 17 of 20 for the Jets.

I wonder whether Rudan figured Mejias isn't worth the visa spot compared to local keepers, decided to let him go at the end of the season, and give minutes to the keeper he's holding on to.

Mejias played 3 games under Rudan before he got dropped, after we lost to WU 1-0 and then City 3-1.

I'm guessing Rudan considered Mejias was at fault on the first goal for not catching the ball off the corner, or coming up to claim the second ball that the header was scored from. I'd also note Glover spilled a cross into the path of Ogawa who if he wasn't useless would have scored on the rebound, but it wouldn't have cost them the game anyway. And maybe a bit of blame on the 3rd goal as his dive was weird with no power and it meant instead of being able to turn it away it went through his fingertips.

Once you drop a foreigner you're basically telling them they're gone at the end of the season, and when the other local keeper is off contract as well there's no incentive to bring the foreign keeper back unless your local makes some horrendous errors. So you can play the local, give him experience and help decide if you want to re-sign him.

From the efforts this season they should both be looking for new clubs.

27 minutes ago, Davo said:

I don't necessarily have a problem with using a visa spot for a goalkeeper, but they have to be significantly better than anyone available locally (e.g. Lopar). I remember looking this up at the start of the season and I think the only trophy won with a foreign keeper in the A-League era is one FFA Cup that City got with Sorensen in 2016. Traditionally teams have done better with 5 outfield visa players. In my opinion Mejias is a better keeper than Margush, and we should have been playing him all season. I also think he isn't enough of an improvement on local keepers to be worth the visa spot.

I looked up the stats for expected goals on target (xGOT) that we conceded, as it removes shots the off target and blocked shots that clutter up xG when looking at keepers. Basically it's shots that are either either saved or are goals. If you compare the xGOT conceded per 90 mins to the number of non-own goals conceded per 90 minutes it gives a pretty good indication of the keepers performance.

Based on that Mejias concedes 0.088 less goals per 90 mins than expected based on the shots on target that he's faced. For Margush it's 0.086. So by that measure they're basically as good as each other, and pretty close to the league average of 0.06. I didn't include the Roar game as it skews the stats a little against Mejias, he was only on for a couple of minutes and the first thing he had to do was face a penalty.

For comparison, the Mariners have the best keeping performance, conceding 0.37 less goals than expected per 90 mins, and the Jets have the worst conceding 0.23 more than expected per 90 mins.. I haven't broken them down by keeper, although Birighitti has played 19 of their 20 games, and Duncan 17 of 20 for the Jets.

I wonder whether Rudan figured Mejias isn't worth the visa spot compared to local keepers, decided to let him go at the end of the season, and give minutes to the keeper he's holding on to.

I rate Birighetti, would love to have him here.

We should sign Birighitti because he comes up for corners when his team is losing. Entertainment!

14 minutes ago, WSWJACK said:

I rate Birighetti, would love to have him here.

Yeah, I haven't seen that many Mariners games but following the stats he's been an outlier all season.

The Mariners have conceded the second highest xGOT in the competition, but have only the 7th most goals against. Basically, they're conceding a lot of high quality chances each game like a team at the bottom, but Birighitti's performances mean they're only conceding goals like a mid table team.

Conversely the Jets have the third best xGOT against in the comp, so they're defending well and aren't giving up many high quality chances, but they've conceded the exact same number of goals as the Mariners because their keeping is letting them down.

WSW is pretty much mid table for all these stats, our issue is we can't score up the other end (second last for goals per game, third last for expected goals on target).

2 hours ago, mack said:

You don't need a top quality keeper to win A-League titles now, they just need to avoid mistakes that cost you points against the other top 4 teams and in the finals. SFC won all their recent ones with Andrew Redmayne, one of the worst keepers to get regular game time in the A-League, and City are winning theirs with Tom Glover who has some serious flaws and Victory had Lawrence Thomas who is better than those first two but still not the same level as Vukovic, Galekovic, Covic or Ryan.

What you've always needed is two cracker center backs. When is the last time you saw two WSW who could carry us through a season? Micky + NTS  ////  Spira + NTS  //// Aguilar + NTS. Thats our three best seasons right there. You can't skate over the fact we've accepted absolute dross at CB ever since.

We have the 2 we need right now, it's just that one of them has 1 knee.

Margush is a **** tier keeper but his feet arent typically his failing, he was recruited because he's apparently a ball playing GK. He'd be somewhat feasible if our midfield and backline didn't have him under pressure.

Even if we dont sign a new keeper for next year, we can have a huge impact by giving Mrcela a proper partner. Add some goals and we are sweet

Is Mrcela on 5 yellows now?

28 minutes ago, BoyFromTheWest said:

Is Mrcela on 5 yellows now?

No. Only has two.

5 hours ago, Zelinsky said:

Unless I am mistaken a foreign spot will not be required...

Information that can't be shared at this time....?

1 hour ago, sonar said:

Information that can't be shared at this time....?

PM me, and I’ll tell you what I know

23 minutes ago, Zelinsky said:

PM me, and I’ll tell you what I know

Thanks, I may do later but I'll tell you straight up I'm not very good at keeping secrets......

There are other forumites I'd want to tell............and that would defeat the purpose of keeping mum till the appropriate time.

For the time being I'll accept the club is doing something constructive behind the scenes.

My guess would be bringing Paul Izzo or Lawrence Thomas back.

20 minutes ago, mack said:

My guess would be bringing Paul Izzo or Lawrence Thomas back.

Could be Izzo....contract expires June this year......would be an upgrade on Margush.

Danny Vukovic hasnt played a game in the Netherlands??? Loan back home?

17 hours ago, StringerBellend said:

I don't get this don't waste a foriegn spot on a 'keeper? yet people are cool with a foriegn right back or left back. Surely your 'keeper directly influence's more results than most players.

Because teams are able to succeed when they have Andrew Redmayne and Tom Glover are the GK, neither have been the best Aussie Keeper in any season they played.

I think Izzo and Laurence Thomas was up there when they were here now I would say Birighetti. Adelaide at the moment have the next best keepers in Gauci and Delianov. But Glover and Redmayne are the two more successful teams in the past 6 years and neither have been the best keeper at any time.

12 hours ago, sonar said:

Could be Izzo....contract expires June this year......would be an upgrade on Margush.

have  feeling he is going to victory with popa. 

On 10/04/2022 at 10:58 AM, SBW said:

I'm not going to place the entire blame on Margush for his **** up. Margush should have not had the ball in the first place which I don't understand why the **** do we keep passing ball backwards? This is **** football. How is anyone supposed to enjoy watching their team playing this kind of Football?

I just knew that as soon as they went down to 10 men, we're somehow going to lose this game and I just knew it.

This club is in need of a massive reset from top to bottom.

Yes the entire blame should be placed on Margush for that, it was regulation.

3 hours ago, scarcev said:

Yes the entire blame should be placed on Margush for that, it was regulation.

Watching it back, yes the ball should have been up the other end of the field. But it wasn't Margush had plenty of time to clear the ball, he made a total mess of it, then had time to put it out for a corner, made a bigger mess. It's all on him

3 hours ago, StringerBellend said:

Watching it back, yes the ball should have been up the other end of the field. But it wasn't Margush had plenty of time to clear the ball, he made a total mess of it, then had time to put it out for a corner, made a bigger mess. It's all on him

The only scenario possible where Margush had been more at fault: he whacks the ball into his own net. 

When keepers make mistakes it usually shows, and makes them look bad. Bouzanis fisting the ball against his own cross bar seemed like an unbeatable gem at the time. But Margush was a totally different level, just when you think it can't get any worse at wsw: it does.  

5 minutes ago, Zelinsky said:

The only scenario possible where Margush had been more at fault: he whacks the ball into his own net. 

When keepers make mistakes it usually shows, and makes them look bad. Bouzanis fisting the ball against his own cross bar seemed like an unbeatable gem at the time. But Margush was a totally different level, just when you think it can't get any worse at wsw: it does.  

 

It was even worse than Vedran giving that corner away against roar 

Our unique ability of players coming to us and regressing. 

1 hour ago, WHACKO said:

Our unique ability of players coming to us and regressing. 

The early years aside, one of the few players not to regress at WSW is Redmayne. He was the worst keeper in the league when he joined us and still was when he left us.

1 hour ago, StringerBellend said:

It was even worse than Vedran giving that corner away against roar 

We are only talking about it because it resulted in an add on time equaliser. He did worse than that, he was good for at least one massive howler per season. Margush is in the same league.

The margush incident we lost the ball on a terrible ball into the box from Ugarkovic I think, didn't go anywhere near the right player (and was way too high anyway).

Adelaide played one pass to a defender in space and they smashed it long immediately.

21 hours ago, scarcev said:

Yes the entire blame should be placed on Margush for that, it was regulation.

So be it, I'm not entirely putting the blame on Margush, and yes he should have done better, watch Bozza's take on this on Stan Sport.

The thing is, they were down to 10 men for 20 minutes and we had 20min to seal the game off, we did nothing. Blaming Margush for his **** up masks the craptacular performance they put in for the whole game.