Elsey Send Off Sends Off 2018 With Draw

7 minutes ago, Erebus said:

Have to disagree here mate. Risdon did jack 5hit defending for the first goal and actually gifted it for a tap in when trying to do...something with it as it went past him?

https://twitter.com/AdelaideUnited/status/1077882662360993793

Yeah fair enough looking at replay he didn't get as close to him as i thought and had plenty of time to do better once (pretty poor) cross was hit. Still a VERY fortunate goal though because if the deflection goes anywhere but that exact spot it comes to nothing.

23 minutes ago, lloydy136 said:

Perhaps the 150 or so a-league games he has played might give a hint or two

The idea that fitzgerald is being offered up as a solution (and you are right he was the best available option) tells you everything you need to know about where we are at.

These are our wing options.....

- roly (not a winger)

- majok (possibly worst 1st touch in history of a-league)

- kamau (ok but often wasteful)

- fitzgerald (career squaddie)

- sotirio (no explanation needed)

If you’ve played 150 games & won a couple of comps by your mid 20’s, you’re more than a ‘career squaddie’ IMO but I get what you mean. I’ve watched him a fair bit being a Blacktown junior & he’s a decent standard A League winger. Had a really good run for City (started in front of Bruce majority of the time), I Just think it’s ridiculous given how poor we’ve been that he hasn’t got a run (among others). Maybe I am biased because he’s a local & genuinely good kid. 

In saying that, he was 1 of the 4 or 5 I heard likely to leave in Jan, so we’re probably arguing for nothing! 

55 minutes ago, lloydy136 said:

Perhaps the 150 or so a-league games he has played might give a hint or two

The idea that fitzgerald is being offered up as a solution (and you are right he was the best available option) tells you everything you need to know about where we are at.

These are our wing options.....

- roly (not a winger)

- majok (possibly worst 1st touch in history of a-league)

- kamau (ok but often wasteful)

- fitzgerald (career squaddie)

- sotirio (no explanation needed)

All while we have a striker who can head a ball if he gets the service. It is horrendous.

How we let ikonomidis escape to perth i have no idea.

Punt whoever we need to (ideally llorente) and bring in a visa winger in january or 8th will be the best we can hope for imo

Visa attacking player who can actually score goals and Jedinak on loan 

5 hours ago, Bellby said:

If you’re a man up, you want to stretch the game & make use of the extra space/player, I don’t think Roly can offer that as a winger, So either straight swap Roly for Fitz or take off O’Doherty for Fitz & play Roly centrally which should give you further penetration in the middle of the park.. but he wouldn’t do that because he’s already come out (after a month) & said Roly cant play CM despite playing his whole career there. 

Or go to a 442ish formation & play Roly or ABJ (maybe that gets him more space) directly behind Riera.

I completely understand we dont have a a Honda or Goodwin or a Castro etc sitting on the bench but I’d rather have a crack then roll over like a dog when we’re a man up. We took zero risks structurally, came out of it with a point, & then had the manager come out & criticise the players. Again. 

Roly played in the middle all of last season and did not have one decent game and you want him back there.

1 hour ago, StringerBellend said:

Visa attacking player who can actually score goals and Jedinak on loan 

Maybe Nigro who is rotting in Brisbane.

2 hours ago, lloydy136 said:

Perhaps the 150 or so a-league games he has played might give a hint or two

The idea that fitzgerald is being offered up as a solution (and you are right he was the best available option) tells you everything you need to know about where we are at.

These are our wing options.....

- roly (not a winger)

- majok (possibly worst 1st touch in history of a-league)

- kamau (ok but often wasteful)

- fitzgerald (career squaddie)

- sotirio (no explanation needed)

All while we have a striker who can head a ball if he gets the service. It is horrendous.

How we let ikonomidis escape to perth i have no idea.

Punt whoever we need to (ideally llorente) and bring in a visa winger in january or 8th will be the best we can hope for imo

You missed Fathead.

Supposedly available in 2 weeks.

2 minutes ago, Paul01 said:

You missed Fathead.

Supposedly available in 2 weeks.

With his long layoff and lack of game time & fitness I doubt Bridge will ever play a full 90 or even 45 min for us again.I suspect this may well be his last season.

Tbh he can score a goal though which is something we lack at the moment

We’re **** and we know it 

Possibly a little too simplistic to say but I am thinking our game against City could determine the rest of our season. Unless we recruit significantly in Jan.

City are a decent team but not top 3. If we put in a good performance and get 3 points maybe we can declare, "Nurse, quick,  the patient has a pulse".

Lose again and we really are in a season of despair and no hope? SOP is a graveyard and one in which our season will be buried.

1 hour ago, beatsurrender said:

Possibly a little too simplistic to say but I am thinking our game against City could determine the rest of our season. Unless we recruit significantly in Jan.

City are a decent team but not top 3. If we put in a good performance and get 3 points maybe we can declare, "Nurse, quick,  the patient has a pulse".

Lose again and we really are in a season of despair and no hope? SOP is a graveyard and one in which our season will be buried.

lol.....I know in reality SOP has eff all to do with what occurs on the field but we really are cursed at that place and I know I am not alone when I say we will happier as fans when we are done with that hell hole....lol

The upside of our last two and a bit seasons is I think we have reached the bottom in respect to performance and things should improve. (should ...lol ) In Popa's last season and the one with Gumby we played a passing game that relied on us keeping the ball while doing nothing with it. We didn't/don't have the playing roster to do it and it showed in the results. 6th & 7th.

At least with Babbel we have a method to the madness where we create chances but not finish them off, and the passing makes sense not just passing and keeping possession for the sake of it. Babbels not the messiah but he HAS made improvements to how we play.. I think we may scrape into 6th and then it's anyones guess as to what happens. It would ironic if we just made 6th and then won the thing,where in the seasons where we have been near the top we have fallen 3 times in the last game.....football is like that.

On 26 December 2018 at 11:40 PM, HillsPanther said:

I'm not convinced they took control of the game after the equaliser.  Adelaide looked more likely after that even with a man down .

This disappointed me the most, we failed to take the initiative when we had the numerical advantage. Adelaide took the game to us, we were wasteful with the ball in possession, didn’t look like unlocking the Adelaide defence when we had the extra player, looked more like scoring & seem to lose the intensity when we needed to step up another gear. The way Adelaide played tonight with 10, is the same way we needed to play against Easts in the derby with 10 men.

On 27 December 2018 at 1:02 AM, mack said:

The two squads we've had would make Pep Guardiola and Marco Bielsa look ****. However, his recruitment needs to be absolutely 100% spot on for 12 to 15 players next year (the youth should be able to fill in past that).

This is our biggest issue this season, depending on younger players to dominate the opposition & then having nothing on the bench to change a game.

On 27 December 2018 at 7:43 AM, Paul01 said:

Here’s why Elsey got sent off. All Adelaide’s fault

It’s ridiculous how everyone is calling it soft, okay he is going for the ball but you can’t go around flailing your elbows not expecting to be penalized when you connect with opposition players heads. 

On 27 December 2018 at 7:49 AM, Bellby said:

ABJ turns up 1 out of 4 games. With 11 v 10 he should of been all over the ball yet not I’m not sure he touched in more than twice in the offensive 3rd. Sure it’s not entirely his fault but his movement is non existent at times. Clear quality but people make countless excuses for the guy purely because of his resume, much like MB.

MB gets a free ride, 

The issues I see with treejack:

- The amount of runs he makes, positions he takes or passes he sees but his team mates aren’t on the same wavelength are not funny. You can’t blame tree jack for this

- Running, ideally you’d like him in the final third on the ball. He spends most of his time on the ball in the wrong positions, after he has been running all over the field. He generally picks up the ball too deep with not enough players in front of him to really affect the game.

Despite defending him, too often I feel he is wasteful. He gives away the ball too much & hasn’t shown he has the engine to affect the game for 90 minutes consistently. I do hope that he can improve in this department. I just feel that we need to get him involved in our play in an area which is he able to use his ability to affect the game. He is wasted with the ball on the halfway line without any options. It reminds me of Takahagi & the fact we moved a 10 deeper to get him involved to impact the game.

On 27 December 2018 at 10:30 AM, Erebus said:

 Long post

The short, Babbel

On 27 December 2018 at 1:42 PM, Bellby said:

We all agree we created nothing after Kamau, was very clear to see, yet surely that’s when the coach earns his pay & makes changes to personnel or structure? He did nothing but sub a CM for a more defensively minded CM.

We had options, he just didn’t use them. 

Fitzgerald was an option but I’m guessing fitness played a part. I’ve alsi noticed that Babbel very rarely makes a sub till the 80th minute. I understand saving 1 till the 80-85, but all 3?

When you’ve got Mahazi to bring off the bench as a game changing substitution to break down a tough 10 men, then you know you’re in trouble. If we had someone to bring on & change the game or formation, we would have!

To be honest, you can’t expect Roly to run around with that effort & intensity, then plop him into midfield & expect him to out perform our two midfielders. MB has made it very clear why he won’t play Roly in CM.

21 hours ago, Bellby said:

How would anyone know how good he is, he’s got about 40mins all year. Started v Brisbane, played well, never seen again.

He has been injured, first week back was last week.

20 hours ago, Erebus said:

Have to disagree here mate. Risdon did jack 5hit defending for the first goal and actually gifted it for a tap in when trying to do...something with it as it went past him?

I’m with Lloydy here, you’ve got a point re: lazy defending but that deflection could have gone anywhere. Wrong footed the entire defense and appeared at the back post to the only Adelaide player making a run. Very unlucky.

19 hours ago, wendybr said:

I know some here have expressed appreciation of MB coming out and publicly criticising the players, or even expressing disbelief at what they are doing, but I'm with Bellby and others who don't like it.

It might work with a highly talented group of players who are being lazy, or who are disregarding/defying  the manager's instructions, but in a group with no self belief/no confidence, it is unlikely to work. It PLAINLY hasn't worked over the weeks he's been doing it. It doesn't suggest to me good "man management" skills. Sure Gombau's approach was wrong, but this is approach is not confidence inspiring either.

He is basically saying quite openly something not far off,  "I don't know what's going on, and I don't know how to fix it."

Well, that's how it comes across to me.

I find it almost painful to look at Riera atm - where the lack of confidence can be read on his face. To me - his penalty expressed lack of confidence - fear almost..... and his face, after the actually scored - well...he looked like he was going to cry. It seemed like disbelief.

IDK....but as others have observed, the group psychology of the players has to be managed with more finesse than is apparent at the moment - IMHO.

It’s interesting point Wendy, this has been highlighted overseas with Jose Mourinho & his management style in which he is highly critical of his players in order to force a response out of his players. The general consensus is that this style of management is outdated & modern players in the last 10 years (especially the younger ones) require a different style.

In saying this, I disagree that MB is overall critical or accusing them of being lazy. We have no idea how he acts behind the scenes. To me it appears that what he says behind the scenes & what he says in the media are two different things. Look at Roly, in the media he was highly critical of his constant loss of possession in midfield & refuses to play him in that role. When Roly was asked about these quotes, he acted with complete surprise. Look at how he dealt with the Baccus situation. That was all behind the scenes. Mourinho was a master at practicing the art of playing the media, I feel like Arnie does something similar.

As a fan base, I prefer he calls a spade a spade. If we play ****, I don’t want to hear how “we played well” or “we just need to be patient and the results will come”. Marcus Babbel is blunt & direct, he won’t sugar coat things but won’t hang his players out to dry. If the players make basic mistakes or don’t follow instructions, I see no issue pointing that out. The use of language between highlighting that players are not following versus defying or disregarding is different (to me at least). 

In fact, I think we saw last year that the approach of gombau “we are playing good, the results will come” doesn’t work either & requires to strike that balance.

Confidence, that is a different matter all together. I think what happens behind the scenes and the way we are playing play much more of a role. For example, Newcastle game after the MV hammering would have affected the confidence of the team rather than any comments MB would have played in the media.

Don’t really agree with all you’ve said @Prydzopolis but some interesting points & good responses. A few points but (& to be fair I’m hearing everything second hand so can’t say my info is bullet proof)... 

- Fitzgerald is about as ‘injured’ as Nizic was last game.... being pushed out.

- Roly is a professional so didn’t say too much to the media but MBs remarks didn’t go down well & still haven’t.

- There are issues in the squad with the coach/es, the club will back to the coach though given his reputation & the $$$. 

Should be an interesting January that’s for sure. 

15 hours ago, scarcev said:

Roly played in the middle all of last season and did not have one decent game and you want him back there.

Personally, yeh I think he’s a CM (& agree he was poor last year but was quality for the nix) but I was more talking about after 60/70mins, I think he’d add more to our midfield in that situation then Mahazi.

2 hours ago, Bellby said:

A few points but (& to be fair I’m hearing everything second hand so can’t say my info is bullet proof)

My second hand info seems to be at odds with your second hand info, I guess it's just one of those things

3 hours ago, Prydzopolis said:

I

As a fan base, I prefer he calls a spade a spade. If we play ****, I don’t want to hear how “we played well” or “we just need to be patient and the results will come”. Marcus Babbel is blunt & direct, he won’t sugar coat things but won’t hang his players out to dry. 

 

Exactly this, when Vedran got sent off in the derby, he didnt put him out to dry, he was pissed off at how the boys played.

And as for his tactics last week against the Smurfs, I do get what he was trying to do, Kurz did the exact same thing against us with a man down and were able to outplay us and nearly got themselves a winner, that's what Babbel wants in his team, to fight and go the extra yard, our player's heads just drops way too quickly as soon as we concede a goal and they just lose their shape.

Babbel won't have the luxuries of paying transfer fees to get the players he wants but I just hope the club can back him and work with him to get the players he wants in order to be successful but the question is are the owners willing to do that? 

Hopefully jan transfer window will be interesting. If we do get a couple of players out will be interesting to see what ambition club shows with those coming in

as for Babbel too harsh with the players, really? He’s just been straight, if we want to win anything and if they want to go play at a higher level then they need to do more 

1 hour ago, SBW said:

Babbel won't have the luxuries of paying transfer fees to get the players he wants but I just hope the club can back him and work with him to get the players he wants in order to be successful but the question is are the owners willing to do that? 

Do we know for certain that there is no money available in January or are making this conclusion based on previous statements by management?  I don't know what the level of financial transparency required of A-League clubs is, but in most organisations members receive some type of financial reports on a regular basis.

There's no question Babbel should be doing better with this squad, as mediocre as it is.

Babbel's win percentage is worse than Des Buckingham and Chris Greenacre, both of whom were in charge of the Nix at various points (Greenacre three times, only as an interim coach after the last one got sacked) during their awful last few years, he's got less win percentage than Scott Miller's one season in Newcastle, and worse than Rado Vidosic who lasted 3 months at the Roar in 2012.

He's only slightly better than Mehmet Durakovic, who is literally an A-League joke for how badly he performed and reacted during his 14 games at the Victory, for just 3 wins.

the way I see it look at Adelaide bench. Kurz was able to bring 2 players in Illso and Strain to change the game at 2nd half. Then Reegan for defence when they conceded the 2nd and go down to 10 men.

I look at our bench Mahazi, Fitzy and Llorente. Now apart from Llorente who was brought on because Elrich was getting destroyed on speed, no one affected the game in a positive manner when they came on.

Who here had confidence in that bench when our starting 11 could not change the game.

I do not crticise Babbel as hard because even I am at a loss as to what to do with the current squad except look for "mutual termination" of certain players in January

3 hours ago, SBW said:

 that's what Babbel wants in his team, to fight and go the extra yard, our player's heads just drops way too quickly as soon as we concede a goal and they just lose their shape.

Amongst other issues to sort out - this is a huge one. And he has to figure out how to do that - which I imagine requires more than a "one size fits all" strategy as a manager? Just as in a classroom, a teacher has to work out the way to reach each student, I imagine a skilful manager needs to find what works with his players to some extent?? And maybe both the team and the manager are still working that out.

7 hours ago, Prydzopolis said:

It’s interesting point Wendy, this has been highlighted overseas with Jose Mourinho & his management style in which he is highly critical of his players in order to force a response out of his players. The general consensus is that this style of management is outdated & modern players in the last 10 years (especially the younger ones) require a different style.

In saying this, I disagree that MB is overall critical or accusing them of being lazy. We have no idea how he acts behind the scenes. To me it appears that what he says behind the scenes & what he says in the media are two different things. Look at Roly, in the media he was highly critical of his constant loss of possession in midfield & refuses to play him in that role. When Roly was asked about these quotes, he acted with complete surprise. Look at how he dealt with the Baccus situation. That was all behind the scenes. Mourinho was a master at practicing the art of playing the media, I feel like Arnie does something similar.

As a fan base, I prefer he calls a spade a spade. If we play ****, I don’t want to hear how “we played well” or “we just need to be patient and the results will come”. Marcus Babbel is blunt & direct, he won’t sugar coat things but won’t hang his players out to dry. If the players make basic mistakes or don’t follow instructions, I see no issue pointing that out. The use of language between highlighting that players are not following versus defying or disregarding is different (to me at least). 

In fact, I think we saw last year that the approach of gombau “we are playing good, the results will come” doesn’t work either & requires to strike that balance.

Confidence, that is a different matter all together. I think what happens behind the scenes and the way we are playing play much more of a role. For example, Newcastle game after the MV hammering would have affected the confidence of the team rather than any comments MB would have played in the media.

Thanks Prydz for your thoughtful response - as yours always are.

The highlighted/italisised observations would not appeal to me as a player (but then I'm not a young guy or a professional footballer lol).

He is blunt and direct - and some people thrive on that, while others might require a slightly more subtle approach. But you seem to highlight there is a bit of inconsistency...and most of us don't take well to that (saying one thing in the media, and something else behind the scenes)? Poor form in my book to be criticising a player in the media, without having a one on one conversation about it with the player as well.

6 hours ago, Bellby said:

Don’t really agree with all you’ve said @Prydzopolis but some interesting points & good responses. A few points but (& to be fair I’m hearing everything second hand so can’t say my info is bullet proof)... 

- Fitzgerald is about as ‘injured’ as Nizic was last game.... being pushed out.

- Roly is a professional so didn’t say too much to the media but MBs remarks didn’t go down well & still haven’t.

- There are issues in the squad with the coach/es, the club will back to the coach though given his reputation & the $$$. 

Should be an interesting January that’s for sure. 

And there it is again...in Roly's reaction ( assuming Bellby's observations/second hand into is correct!  )

PS I always enjoy your insights and contributions Bellby!  

I always thought we’d get Rudan, he’s doing ok isn’t he?

10 hours ago, Prydzopolis said:

It’s interesting point Wendy, this has been highlighted overseas with Jose Mourinho & his management style in which he is highly critical of his players in order to force a response out of his players. The general consensus is that this style of management is outdated & modern players in the last 10 years (especially the younger ones) require a different style.

In saying this, I disagree that MB is overall critical or accusing them of being lazy. We have no idea how he acts behind the scenes. To me it appears that what he says behind the scenes & what he says in the media are two different things. Look at Roly, in the media he was highly critical of his constant loss of possession in midfield & refuses to play him in that role. When Roly was asked about these quotes, he acted with complete surprise. Look at how he dealt with the Baccus situation. That was all behind the scenes. Mourinho was a master at practicing the art of playing the media, I feel like Arnie does something similar.

As a fan base, I prefer he calls a spade a spade. If we play ****, I don’t want to hear how “we played well” or “we just need to be patient and the results will come”. Marcus Babbel is blunt & direct, he won’t sugar coat things but won’t hang his players out to dry. If the players make basic mistakes or don’t follow instructions, I see no issue pointing that out. The use of language between highlighting that players are not following versus defying or disregarding is different (to me at least). 

In fact, I think we saw last year that the approach of gombau “we are playing good, the results will come” doesn’t work either & requires to strike that balance.

Confidence, that is a different matter all together. I think what happens behind the scenes and the way we are playing play much more of a role. For example, Newcastle game after the MV hammering would have affected the confidence of the team rather than any comments MB would have played in the media.

He dealt with the Baccus situation as well as he could, moved him on within a week of the shirt throwing incident 

The only problem was with that and the injuries to other midfielders we had to panic sign Mahazi 

1 hour ago, StringerBellend said:

I always thought we’d get Rudan, he’s doing ok isn’t he?

Yes he is. 

On 28/12/2018 at 5:24 PM, Sithslayer1991 said:

the way I see it look at Adelaide bench. Kurz was able to bring 2 players in Illso and Strain to change the game at 2nd half. Then Reegan for defence when they conceded the 2nd and go down to 10 men.

I look at our bench Mahazi, Fitzy and Llorente. Now apart from Llorente who was brought on because Elrich was getting destroyed on speed, no one affected the game in a positive manner when they came on.

Who here had confidence in that bench when our starting 11 could not change the game.

I do not crticise Babbel as hard because even I am at a loss as to what to do with the current squad except look for "mutual termination" of certain players in January

 

 

Islo & Strain? Seriously. They are no better than what we have, difference is MK gives them some time to make a difference. Fitzy got what 3 minutes? You can’t expect a player to contribute with that. Mahazi got more time but was just a poor substitution imo. Llorente got more time & tbh I thought he was one of our best when he came on. 

Our squad isn’t nearly half as bad as people make out. MB has pushed out the poor squad narrative in the media to save his skin & give himself at least a year to justify his appointment & people are eating it up. Top 2/3 squad? Nup. But the other sides are roughly the same level. 

If we don't win, we'll be 6 points from the top 6..

= season over. 

37 minutes ago, wanderersfanatic said:

If we don't win, we'll be 6 points from the top 6..

 

= season over. 

On the bright side if we do win we are 3 points off top 4

10 minutes ago, StringerBellend said:

On the bright side if we do win we are 3 points off top 4

That's the spirit..lol

2 hours ago, Bellby said:

Islo & Strain? Seriously. They are no better than what we have, difference is MK gives them some time to make a difference. Fitzy got what 3 minutes? You can’t expect a player to contribute with that. Mahazi got more time but was just a poor substitution imo. Llorente got more time & tbh I thought he was one of our best when he came on. 

Our squad isn’t nearly half as bad as people make out. MB has pushed out the poor squad narrative in the media to save his skin & give himself at least a year to justify his appointment & people are eating it up. Top 2/3 squad? Nup. But the other sides are roughly the same level. 

Llorente was good and he had to come on Elrich was getting killed.

Mahazi was terrible we lost the midfield completely when he came on and it looked like Baccus had to work even harder to get the ball moving for us. First instinct from Mahazi straight in tough yellow card challenge.

And Fitzy unpopular opinion but I do not think he has made the most of his opportunities.

Ilso and Strain are quick and changed Adelaide because in the first half we defended quiet well 2nd half they brought two speedsters and it broke our shape.

This is what I mean Kurz can change the game with his bench to the situation with the team he has built. Our team is sooo unbalanced any change we make keeps the status quo or (unpopular opinion) lowers the quality on the park. There is no plan B with our squad

Fitzgerald has only got 97 minutes of game-time over 6 matches. Well over half of that time came from a single game in Mudgee where he effectively setup the first goal with the lofted through ball that Kamau hit the post & Riera smashed home before he got taken off for Sotirio early in the 2nd half.