Second Derby Defeat For Wanderers

[Upthehill]

3 hours ago, StringerBellend said:

It's interesting how people are games different also interesting how the game seems different when you are watching a different angle.

I was stood back of the RBB so a bit higher than I usually am and from there I could see how clever Costa was at finding little pockets of space. 

Totally agree in that it was quality and experience, lolley, costa, Caceras sena are all decent players. How is that there is such a gulf in the squads. Mostly crap recruitment

But also crap tactics too. 

Quality and experience needed to control midfield, if only we had someone like that?

We do, but our tactical genius had him sitting on the bench until the game was gone. 

I agree on the Mata point. Once he's up to stride and eating up space, he was great with the forward pass.

The problem is that he makes decisions like he's still 27 and in his prime. He tried to dribble out of our box and got completely shut down. 8 Years ago he would have skipped passed Caceras and Grant without effort. We just managed to turn the ball back over, found himself in a similar position and must have decided against trying to dribble 6 blue shirts and made a suicidal back pass into space... where the only player was a blue shirt.

Our midfield will continue to be a major issue. In a 442 you need 2 CMs who can do whats called 'disguising space'. Basically means to cut passing lanes and encourage ball carriers to seek a wide option with the LM and RB can double team the receiver. Priestman and Scicluna are ok at this, Scicluna is better. Priestman seems to play more of the enforcer role. When Brillante and Priestman are together you have 2 enforcers, no intelligent play. Mata is country mile from a true 8.

We've cheaped out on our midfield and its showing on the scoreboard. We're the second worst defensive team and I dont even lay half the blame on Wookie (though he is a dud). I want to know what Staj's plan is come 1 January. He needs to go hard and early on bringing in solutions. 

[WHACKO]

51 minutes ago, WSWJACK said:

It wouldn't happen but wonder if Mark Robbins would like an Australian stint, he's picked up a lot of knowledge at Cov over the years.

The way we're going we couldn't do any worse and get Tony Robbins.

Edited Sunday at 10:22 AM by WHACKO

[Sithslayer1991]

10 hours ago, Upthehill said:

I agree on the Mata point. Once he's up to stride and eating up space, he was great with the forward pass.

The problem is that he makes decisions like he's still 27 and in his prime. He tried to dribble out of our box and got completely shut down. 8 Years ago he would have skipped passed Caceras and Grant without effort. We just managed to turn the ball back over, found himself in a similar position and must have decided against trying to dribble 6 blue shirts and made a suicidal back pass into space... where the only player was a blue shirt.

Our midfield will continue to be a major issue. In a 442 you need 2 CMs who can do whats called 'disguising space'. Basically means to cut passing lanes and encourage ball carriers to seek a wide option with the LM and RB can double team the receiver. Priestman and Scicluna are ok at this, Scicluna is better. Priestman seems to play more of the enforcer role. When Brillante and Priestman are together you have 2 enforcers, no intelligent play. Mata is country mile from a true 8.

We've cheaped out on our midfield and its showing on the scoreboard. We're the second worst defensive team and I dont even lay half the blame on Wookie (though he is a dud). I want to know what Staj's plan is come 1 January. He needs to go hard and early on bringing in solutions. 

Lmao I have already settled he is a dud BUT he is also replacing Marcelo and its night and day. He was not the club's first choice as we know the club was chasing other players, he is getting better as he is getting use to the physicality of the league. And you have young Bonetig next to him and honestly he isn't bad but he needs an experienced person just to keep him in line at times, this is his first season as first choice defender so errors are expected.

 

But that midifeld. I have to agree the midfield functions better with Scicluna there. Priestmann is basically Baccus so having Brillante in there with him doesn't work for the team. Staj should just go all in and start Mata there. The 2 boys need an experienced head to mentor them.

[Erebus]

19 hours ago, Wanderboy said:

Hayden Foxe.

The Wanderers only ever undefeated manager.

He threw away a 2 goal lead in a derby looking ahead at the FFA Cup semi final which we also got smashed in.

 

 

Also Jeong is shite and I can't for the life of me understand how Clisby keeps getting subbed on. We concede every time he's on the park. Our defence is a comedy compared to the last couple seasons. Its back to the McGowen and Golec Hamill days of no leaders

[Smoggy]

7 minutes ago, Erebus said:

He threw away a 2 goal lead in a derby looking ahead at the FFA Cup semi final which we also got smashed in.

 

 

Also Jeong is shite and I can't for the life of me understand how Clisby keeps getting subbed on. We concede every time he's on the park. Our defence is a comedy compared to the last couple seasons. Its back to the McGowen and Golec Hamill days of no leaders

Paying to watch Clisby try and defend is killing my interest tbh.

[Hughesy]

24 minutes ago, Erebus said:

He threw away a 2 goal lead in a derby looking ahead at the FFA Cup semi final which we also got smashed in.

 

 

Also Jeong is shite and I can't for the life of me understand how Clisby keeps getting subbed on. We concede every time he's on the park. Our defence is a comedy compared to the last couple seasons. Its back to the McGowen and Golec Hamill days of no leaders

Interesting that you mention no leaders cause I often feel that we’ve never replaced the leadership that Topor and Bridgey provided, which is a big part of our problems. Most of our ‘leaders’ since they left/retired have been default choices imo

[StringerBellend]

42 minutes ago, Smoggy said:

Paying to watch Clisby try and defend is killing my interest tbh.

He's shocking,totally on the wrong side of his man for one goal in the Derby

As for Jeong he's improving. At fault for 2 goals in derby 1 only at fault for 1 in derby 2..can't say that isn't progress 

Our defence is shocking 

I also looked up stajs record Perth conceded 69 goals last year

[Smoggy]

47 minutes ago, Hughesy said:

Interesting that you mention no leaders cause I often feel that we’ve never replaced the leadership that Topor and Bridgey provided, which is a big part of our problems. Most of our ‘leaders’ since they left/retired have been default choices imo

Best leadership we have had was the Beauchamp - Topor combo with Covid behind them. Never been bettered since.

[Sithslayer1991]

48 minutes ago, Hughesy said:

Interesting that you mention no leaders cause I often feel that we’ve never replaced the leadership that Topor and Bridgey provided, which is a big part of our problems. Most of our ‘leaders’ since they left/retired have been default choices imo

Marcelo was that guy the last 2 seasons. 

[Davo]

Are people actually questioning the foul on Clisby that caused their goal to be ruled out? That doesn't even crack the top 10 for softest fouls given in that game. If it happens in the box and VAR checks it then 100% it's a pen and nobody complains.

If you want to question anything about it maybe the two handed push in the back by Clisby to win possession right before the foul, but not the foul on Clisby.

[PedroPony]

28 minutes ago, Sithslayer1991 said:

Marcelo was that guy the last 2 seasons. 

That is what we are missing. Bonetig and Jeong are at best good enough to be the 2nd central defender, but neither is leadership level. 

[Sithslayer1991]

16 minutes ago, Davo said:

Are people actually questioning the foul on Clisby that caused their goal to be ruled out? That doesn't even crack the top 10 for softest fouls given in that game. If it happens in the box and VAR checks it then 100% it's a pen and nobody complains.

If you want to question anything about it maybe the two handed push in the back by Clisby to win possession right before the foul, but not the foul on Clisby.

We like being negative on this thread.

But it was a foul comes from behind and takes out the legs.

But We also forget up until Clisby screwed up for the 4th goal we were chasing the equaliser which is why we had so many people were forward and CMs were out of position that it was Borello tracking back. This game fell on moments and Smurfs thrive on it every time.

[StringerBellend]

Stating the obvious but we lost the game not showing up for 10mins after halftime

1 1 and coming back our way to 3 - 1 down in minutes

Trying to find positives the goal in first half was a good one.

We should score goals this year with the attack we have 

Go again next week I guess 

[Sime11]

if we can miraculously fix the defence - we are a top 6 team - our attack has looked good at times

[StringerBellend]

24 minutes ago, Sime11 said:

if we can miraculously fix the defence - we are a top 6 team - our attack has looked good at times

Very much that's the frustrating thing, if we can  get the defence + work out how to use Mata, we are top 4 with a who knows what can happen in finals.

At the moment we are a bottom 4 team, can't keep leaking 3 and 4 goals  

[Smoggy]

25 minutes ago, StringerBellend said:

Very much that's the frustrating thing, if we can  get the defence + work out how to use Mata, we are top 4 with a who knows what can happen in finals.

 

Well....top 2 reach final..home team generally wins

....rinse and repeat

[Bangaverage]

Move Cleur into CB with Bonetig - Cameron and Panta down the flanks - 4 players then that want to be there and play with passion. Cleur can step up and be the leader of the back 4! Clisby can go and get stuffed

[Sithslayer1991]

3 minutes ago, Bangaverage said:

Move Cleur into CB with Bonetig - Cameron and Panta down the flanks - 4 players then that want to be there and play with passion. Cleur can step up and be the leader of the back 4! Clisby can go and get stuffed

Lmao I like your Clisby stance, but I think moving Cleur to CB won't be much different to Jeong at CB and all we are doing is moving a competent RB to CB, and replacing with another youth player that really isn't screaming pick me.

If Simmons hadn't injured himself it might have been something to look at or even putting Cleur at LB. For whatever reason Staj wasn't a fan of Simmons at RB and the point is moot as Simmons is injured. Cleur is the only one in the defensive line that I have confidence in, plus he is building up that combo with Milanovic on the right. I rather he continues to build up that chemistry with Milanovic to strengthen our right side.

[SBW]

Go to a back 3

Play a 3-4-1-2

Thomas

Jeong - Bonnetig - Pants

Sapsford - Scicluna - Priestman - Milanovic 

Mata

Borello - Kraev

[StringerBellend]

2 minutes ago, SBW said:

Go to a back 3

Play a 3-4-1-2

Thomas

Jeong - Bonnetig - Pants

Sapsford - Scicluna - Priestman - Milanovic 

Mata

Borello - Kraev

Something has to change. I'd drop Jeong but, I've no idea who replaces him? Pants is a good call but then who plays left back?

I don't think I'd go with a 3 in which basically we are trying to cover Jeong being crap by adding another CB 

 

[immortalshogun]

Staj is almost forced now to fix our defensive issues in the upcoming window. He even conceded that our defence is horrible in the press conference, so really if he doesn’t make any moves in Jan for a CB/LB at the very least then the bloke needs to go ASAP

[MathyouWSW]

4 hours ago, StringerBellend said:

I also looked up stajs record Perth conceded 69 goals last year

Well, they're almost halfway there to beat that this season.

[Davo]

1 hour ago, SBW said:

Go to a back 3

Play a 3-4-1-2

Thomas

Jeong - Bonnetig - Pants

Sapsford - Scicluna - Priestman - Milanovic 

Mata

Borello - Kraev

Milanovic is our current top scorer and Sapsford is equal second. Putting them at wingback might help the defense but would break the one part of the team that's actually working.

[Sithslayer1991]

1 hour ago, SBW said:

Go to a back 3

Play a 3-4-1-2

Thomas

Jeong - Bonnetig - Pants

Sapsford - Scicluna - Priestman - Milanovic 

Mata

Borello - Kraev

I like the creativeness of this. But far out just look at that midfield and defence. You can see this is Newcastle Jets territory with a lack of experience.

It feels like fixing the defence with the current squad is akin to trying to fix something in the International Space station with limited spare parts and masking tape.

I also wouldn't put Sapsford on the wing. He really is starting to build on his development the more he plays, and the chemistry with Borello is improving. You also need to consider that as well both are complimenting each other. You would look at Cleur at RWB but far out the man cannot cross a ball to save his life. He does have the engine for it though. So maybe Hammond but your asking a very technical player to do a lot of gruff work when you want him up high same Milanovic.

[Davo]

 

I said it after the Adelaide game, but a basic 4-2-3-1 would solve so many of our issues.

Nominal shape:

Thomas

Cleur - Jeong - Bonetig - Pantazopoulos

Brillante - Scicluna

Milanovic - Mata - Kraev

Borello

Defensive Third:

Thomas

Cleur - Jeong - Bonetig - Pantazopoulos

Milanovic - Brillante - Scicluna - Kraev

Mata - Borello

Attacking Third:

Thomas

Jeong - Bonetig

Cleur - Brillante - Pantazopoulos

Milanovic - Mata - Borello - Scicluna - Kraev

Nothing special, no reinventing the wheel with any false this or inverted that. Brillante doing the defensive work he's done well so far this season. Scicluna with the work rate to run box to box. Mata pulling the strings behind the attack with two behind him to ease the defensive workload. No need for the fullbacks to go too far forward and leave Clisby sized holes in behind if we turn it over. Simple two banks of four when we're defending, with Mata and Borello cutting out the passing lanes between the opposition centre backs and midfield. A front five when we have sustained possession in the final third while still having the entire back four plus Brillante as cover if we turn it over.

Everyone's playing in their actual position. Holmes and Vidackovic as GK cover, Cleur, Beadling (if he still exists), Pantazopoulos, and Barrie as CB cover. Cameron at RB, Clisby at LB, Priestman and Pelekanos at CM, Sapsford, Hammond, Holiday, Antonsson, and Temelkovski across the front.

[PedroPony]

7 hours ago, Sime11 said:

if we can miraculously fix the defence - we are a top 6 team - our attack has looked good at times

Hopefully with Thomas back in he will be working closely with Staj and the defenders to figure it out. After one of the goals I noticed that he went up to Cleur after and told him off. We definitely didn't have that up to now.

[PedroPony]

In Staj's press conference there is a question about an exchange of words between players and people in the RBB after the game. Did anyone see what happened? I left as soon as the fi all whistle was blown. 

[StringerBellend]

5 hours ago, MathyouWSW said:

Well, they're almost halfway there to beat that this season.

He can't even win that!

[StringerBellend]

45 minutes ago, PedroPony said:

In Staj's press conference there is a question about an exchange of words between players and people in the RBB after the game. Did anyone see what happened? I left as soon as the fi all whistle was blown. 

Yep not a lot really.

Players came to the RBB 

Some chanting (couldn't hear what)

A couple of people yelled their coaching advice at the players

Capo offered Thomas a go on the loud hailer, which he declined

Another dude yelled some coaching tips  

Players walked away looking a bit sheepish.

[Edinburgh]

3 hours ago, PedroPony said:

In Staj's press conference there is a question about an exchange of words between players and people in the RBB after the game. Did anyone see what happened? I left as soon as the fi all whistle was blown. 

 

2 hours ago, StringerBellend said:

Yep not a lot really.

Players came to the RBB 

Some chanting (couldn't hear what)

A couple of people yelled their coaching advice at the players

Capo offered Thomas a go on the loud hailer, which he declined

Another dude yelled some coaching tips  

Players walked away looking a bit sheepish.

I couldn't hear anything that was said by either the "advisors" or the players.

Thomas stepped forward and appeared to agree with a lot that was said (nodding and seeming to mouth yep/ok/agree). Then he stepped away.

Then Borello stepped forward and appeared to disagree with some of the "advice", getting a bit emotional/annoyed in the process. He then was annoyingly walking away, looking like he was leaving, but then came back to the player group before they all left sheepishly.