WSW Club & Staff Thread

[SBW]

10 hours ago, matty said:

Relegation wouldn't work here, move on. 

It can work here, explain why it cant?

[Sithslayer1991]

I would love to see it happen just to see how many people would support their A-league club when they relegated. Its tough to envision because of course NPL clubs no one cares about them so I guess its easy to conclude relegation it would be the same but its not the same.

The threat of relegation and the glory of promotion has never been explored in Australia and would change the sporting landscape and mentality. You would have to educate your casuals that finishing last means you play in the next level below. You would need a large marketing/education campaign of what lies ahead for the Australian public. Its curious just to see what does happen, we can't even simulate this scenario without actually trying it out.

Sometimes you just want to throw Dynamite into the river just to see what happens. This is our dynamite.

[Smoggy]

Promotion / relgation here is a natural progression to a mature competition.

I would love to see the finals system go as well. But that is a harder sell than even promotion and relegation here.

You have teams that can go up or down, you have the champions (team finishes top of first or second division) and then you have your main knock out comp involving all sides. Done.

 

Edited September 10 by Smoggy

[pseudonym]

I like the idea suggested by the APL as Football Australia and the NPL were discussing NSD

A total of 20 professional teams

Divided into two leagues of 10 teams (A1 and A2)

A team plays each of their league's opponents twice (home and away) - 18 matches

But also each team plays the teams of the other league once (5 home and 5 away) - 10 matches

So each team will have played a total of 28 matches with a guarantee of at least one derby match e.g. Mariners in A1 and Jets in A2

[Nek]

I like the idea to eventually (after the initial financial survival years) promote the winner of the NSD (if it ever does launch) provided they meet the criteria and grow the aleague. Then, when the magic league size number is reached, introduce relagation too

Edited September 10 by Nek

[theguyyouwishyouwere]

2 hours ago, SBW said:

It can work here, explain why it cant?

he said move on

[theguyyouwishyouwere]

54 minutes ago, Smoggy said:

Promotion / relgation here is a natural progression to a mature competition.

I would love to see the finals system go as well. But that is a harder sell than even promotion and relegation here.

You have teams that can go up or down, you have the champions (team finishes top of first or second division) and then you have your main knock out comp involving all sides. Done.

 

why would you get rid of the finals? they're awesome. i had a great time on saturday at the NPL finals. and with the league having very few continental spots available - gives top teams something to play for if 1st and the ACL spots are out of reach. plus it lets the league finish on a big day

 

[Smoggy]

22 minutes ago, theguyyouwishyouwere said:

why would you get rid of the finals? they're awesome. i had a great time on saturday at the NPL finals. and with the league having very few continental spots available - gives top teams something to play for if 1st and the ACL spots are out of reach. plus it lets the league finish on a big day

 

Like i said...it's a hard sell 

Finals are so ingrained here.

[SBW]

40 minutes ago, theguyyouwishyouwere said:

he said move on

Then he can't give a proper explanation 

31 minutes ago, theguyyouwishyouwere said:

why would you get rid of the finals? they're awesome. i had a great time on saturday at the NPL finals. and with the league having very few continental spots available - gives top teams something to play for if 1st and the ACL spots are out of reach. plus it lets the league finish on a big day

 

Don't think we can necessarily get rid of the finals series, if we had Pro/Rel, maybe we could emulate the Scottish PL system, split the league in 2 towards the end of the season, top half fight for the championship, bottom half fight to avoid relegation. Just a food for thought 

[Sithslayer1991]

I also have no issues with Finals. I just have an issue with the way its done but that goes for the way the finals system is done here in Australia because it rewards mediocrity rather than consistency.

Technically Scotland and Belgium have their versions of finals with split table format.

And then you have Latin America with their Apertura and Clausura season end play offs. If the champion is different they have a final game to declare the overall season Champion. Majority of Latin American countries have played with a version of this style of finals (note Argentina went back to a league system to align with Europe).

Then of course is the MLS with its Conference system that works well in all sports in USA to declare an overall winner and the way its structured it does reward a consistent team because of how difficult it is to win.

So its not unusual and finals do have a place in football but you want a structure that truly rewards the better teams over those that slip through.

 

[matty]

5 hours ago, SBW said:

It can work here, explain why it cant?

I'll throw you a bone.

There is not enough money in the game.

When a club is unsuccessful, we lose 2/3rds plus of support. Drop down a division, the club will die.

 

[SBW]

1 minute ago, matty said:

I'll throw you a bone.

There is not enough money in the game.

When a club is unsuccessful, we lose 2/3rds plus of support. Drop down a division, the club will die.

 

Well if we don't grow, then there will never be enough money in the game.

Dropping down a division doesn't necessarily kill any of the clubs off, only thing that will change is the operating costs will be a lot less and clubs having to make do with the academy and fringe players.

With the death of the NSL, those NSL clubs should have died along with it but they continued operating, and these NSL clubs had a lot less cash than the current A-League clubs, so if they can survive the death of the NSL, I can't see how A-League clubs will die if they get relegated.

Once or if the NST takes off, it could at least be 5-6 years after that Pro/Rel will happen.

[matty]

2 hours ago, SBW said:

Then he can't give a proper explanation 

Might take me a minute, i don't live on the internet. Got a family, job, bills to pay. We don't all live at mums house.

[matty]

Just now, SBW said:

Well if we don't grow, then there will never be enough money in the game.

Dropping down a division doesn't necessarily kill any of the clubs off, only thing that will change is the operating costs will be a lot less and clubs having to make do with the academy and fringe players.

With the death of the NSL, those NSL clubs should have died along with it but they continued operating, and these NSL clubs had a lot less cash than the current A-League clubs, so if they can survive the death of the NSL, I can't see how A-League clubs will die if they get relegated.

Once or if the NST takes off, it could at least be 5-6 years after that Pro/Rel will happen.

I hope you're right, but I don't think so. I'd love to see it, but we won't. 

[StringerBellend]

1 hour ago, SBW said:

Well if we don't grow, then there will never be enough money in the game.

Dropping down a division doesn't necessarily kill any of the clubs off, only thing that will change is the operating costs will be a lot less and clubs having to make do with the academy and fringe players.

With the death of the NSL, those NSL clubs should have died along with it but they continued operating, and these NSL clubs had a lot less cash than the current A-League clubs, so if they can survive the death of the NSL, I can't see how A-League clubs will die if they get relegated.

Once or if the NST takes off, it could at least be 5-6 years after that Pro/Rel will happen.

The A League teams will be the ones that would die if they get relegated. The NSL clubs have survived through far worse than relegation,  because they have a club and community behind them etc. They are community ran by volunteers who care for the club and as members own the club.  

who would volunteer their time to keep a privately owned franchise running?

 

[mack]

A lot of ex-NSL clubs are subsidised by parents paying thousands of dollars for junior programs and/or having their own backers to inject money into the club. Not every ex-NSL club is a Marconi with a licensed venue & pokies to prop the football side up.

A-League clubs being relegated to the NPL would be in exactly the same situation they are now, relying on club owners to exist. The only difference would be that the amount of money & crowd interest would change, and the question would be if the club owners would be willing to keep injecting money at the new level or not.

[braad]

17 hours ago, matty said:

Relegation wouldn't work here, move on. 

To be clear, I wasn’t saying we have to have it here. My point was that as none of our leagues have it, it breeds apathy.
At least with the AFL they have a draft sorta like American leagues so there’s some type of incentive to a proper rebuild. Otherwise it’s just clubs usually buying recycled journeymen. Should they focus on youth? Yes, but throw that on to the problem pile with lack of funding, lack of marketing, lack of a media company giving free air time, lack of games, lack of common sense with game times in summer, etc

[SBW]

19 hours ago, StringerBellend said:

The A League teams will be the ones that would die if they get relegated. The NSL clubs have survived through far worse than relegation,  because they have a club and community behind them etc. They are community ran by volunteers who care for the club and as members own the club.  

who would volunteer their time to keep a privately owned franchise running?

 

 

I don't think A-League clubs will die, I still believe A-League clubs are in a much better financial position, and yeah it will impact them financially if they get relegated but that happens with most clubs around the world as well, if your club has bad financial mismanagement, they would end up like Bolton Wanderers or Bordeaux and I hope we don't get to that in the future. 

[StringerBellend]

13 minutes ago, SBW said:

I don't think A-League clubs will die, I still believe A-League clubs are in a much better financial position, and yeah it will impact them financially if they get relegated but that happens with most clubs around the world as well, if your club has bad financial mismanagement, they would end up like Bolton Wanderers or Bordeaux and I hope we don't get to that in the future. 

Jets have been kept afloat by the other A League teams, Perth too

Relegation would have killed the Jets, why would the a league keep a team in a NSD2 alive? Surely promotion and relegation means leave it to the Newcastle clubs to sort out who is strongest 

[Stokz]

If you go bust - start again from the bottom of the pyramid and make your way up. 

[matty]

Look at every other national sport, they bend over backwards to spread teams through the country as much a possible. They want those millions in Perth, the hundreds of thousands in Tassie etc. To have a system that makes it possible (and likely,  look at Aus Cup records) to have no clubs in half the country - it's completely unrealistic and won't be allowed to happen. 

I love the idea of relegation, but it won't happen.

[GE942150]

For anyone interested in waking up very early to see Mata at the airport

 

 

[JustWandering]

4 hours ago, matty said:

Look at every other national sport, they bend over backwards to spread teams through the country as much a possible. They want those millions in Perth, the hundreds of thousands in Tassie etc. To have a system that makes it possible (and likely,  look at Aus Cup records) to have no clubs in half the country - it's completely unrealistic and won't be allowed to happen. 

I love the idea of relegation, but it won't happen.

The big football codes want teams in every state for the windfall they'll receive for the broadcast rights. A league barely gets anything from broadcast rights though even with its wide national footprint. Player transfers, club memberships, and game attendance seem more realistic money earners for A league 

Considering what a struggle it is to create a professional club in this country, relegation into the NPL would surely be a killer blow. I would like to see a professional team pyramid though. You could have promotion from the NPL for clubs prepared to turn professional, just without teams going back the other way. The more professional teams that can be created the better. I'd also like it to rain money, above my house at least.

[matty]

10 hours ago, JustWandering said:

The big football codes want teams in every state for the windfall they'll receive for the broadcast rights. A league barely gets anything from broadcast rights though even with its wide national footprint. Player transfers, club memberships, and game attendance seem more realistic money earners for A league 

Considering what a struggle it is to create a professional club in this country, relegation into the NPL would surely be a killer blow. I would like to see a professional team pyramid though. You could have promotion from the NPL for clubs prepared to turn professional, just without teams going back the other way. The more professional teams that can be created the better. I'd also like it to rain money, above my house at least.

Even though we get far less money, I think the spread of teams is just as important, especially if we want to grow the financial pie. There is a reason we got Macarthur and Western Utd. TV. There is a reason the next 2 clubs are in new 'markets'. 

Those choices weren't about the clubs finances, it was for the leagues. A competition with 5 clubs in Sydney and 4 in Melbourne, 0 in QLD and 0 in Adelaide would not be a good thing.

Agree with your last paragraph.

[StringerBellend]

32 minutes ago, matty said:

Even though we get far less money, I think the spread of teams is just as important, especially if we want to grow the financial pie. There is a reason we got Macarthur and Western Utd. TV. There is a reason the next 2 clubs are in new 'markets'. 

Those choices weren't about the clubs finances, it was for the leagues. A competition with 5 clubs in Sydney and 4 in Melbourne, 0 in QLD and 0 in Adelaide would not be a good thing.

Agree with your last paragraph.

If you have pro rel and are 'pure' about it then you can't control the spread of teams, the teams at the top will be the teams at the top 

 

[Stokz]

48 minutes ago, matty said:

Even though we get far less money, I think the spread of teams is just as important, especially if we want to grow the financial pie. There is a reason we got Macarthur and Western Utd. TV. There is a reason the next 2 clubs are in new 'markets'. 

Those choices weren't about the clubs finances, it was for the leagues. A competition with 5 clubs in Sydney and 4 in Melbourne, 0 in QLD and 0 in Adelaide would not be a good thing.

Agree with your last paragraph.

A competition where the same 10-11 teams play each other for 10 years straight is also very exciting. 

Got to love the 9 vs 11 match ups towards the end of the season. 

[StringerBellend]

19 minutes ago, Stokz said:

 

Got to love the 9 vs 11 match ups towards the end of the season. 

WSW v Jets 

Always a great game 

[matty]

42 minutes ago, Stokz said:

A competition where the same 10-11 teams play each other for 10 years straight is also very exciting. 

Got to love the 9 vs 11 match ups towards the end of the season. 

I agree, it's a shame but it won't change.

Edited September 11 by matty

[JustWandering]

30 minutes ago, StringerBellend said:

WSW v Jets 

Always a great game 

Australia cup autoqualification on the line 😉.

[SBW]

12 hours ago, JustWandering said:

The big football codes want teams in every state for the windfall they'll receive for the broadcast rights. A league barely gets anything from broadcast rights though even with its wide national footprint. Player transfers, club memberships, and game attendance seem more realistic money earners for A league 

Considering what a struggle it is to create a professional club in this country, relegation into the NPL would surely be a killer blow. I would like to see a professional team pyramid though. You could have promotion from the NPL for clubs prepared to turn professional, just without teams going back the other way. The more professional teams that can be created the better. I'd also like it to rain money, above my house at least.

I remembered reading this article below a few years ago, we need to take lessons from Japan who actually have a vision, a goal in sight and how they want to achieve success.

At the moment, all what Aus football has done is take short term approaches which has lead to failures with no vision for our game long term, they have never presented a long term vision for football in this country and thats one of the reasons why we are stuck at where we are or even regressed in other spaces.

The rise, fall and rise again of Japanese football that we should have learnt from (theroar.com.au)