What Floats Your Boat 4

[StringerBellend]

Thank god though that the conversation has moved on.. Housing affordability. I wonder what Eric Clapton thinks about it 

[Edinburgh]

22 minutes ago, mack said:

Which part?

Que?

[wendybr]

5 hours ago, Cynth said:

I can’t believe I’m bothering with this gibberish. 

1/ You are incorrect. Up till the end of 2021, 2239 had died (not 1000). 

2/ In 2022 to date, the deaths have climbed to 10000, and will continue to climb. 

3/ Common sense and a bit of mathematics will tell you the reasons for this, some of which I painstakingly spelt out before. 

4/ In 2020 and 2021, we had serious restrictions throughout the spikes in Covid outbreak, we were locked down, wearing masks, staying out of nursing homes, etc etc. This reduced the spread and the deaths to one of the best in the world. We also had vaccines, the clear data showing that the unvaccinated were up to 10-20 times more likely to die of Delta than the vaccinated. 

5/ Then we opened up, suddenly, no masks, no lockdown, return to work, holidays, the lot. That in itself was always going to increase transmission and hence death. In addition, it was time for boosters and hence some immunity protection was dropping. 

6/ Omicron came with a transmission rate at the very least 4 times higher than delta and with the current omicron strain, more like ten. 

7/ Whilst the case fatality rate dropped to 0.1% for the vaccinated, like I said before, 0.1% of a large number is much bigger than 2.7% of a small number. 

8/ So we have no restrictions, we have a **** ton of people contracting Covid, we have waning immunity as less people got boosters, all of which make the numbers of deaths increasing,  logical. 

• There is some good studies showing the increased protection that boosters give and the waning immunity if you stopped at two. There’s also ongoing evidence of a disproportionate amount of unvaccinated people dying at a younger median age than others too.
• But I waste my time. Logic does not change hearts and minds. 

 Oh and Bill Gates didn’t say that but it tells me the source of your info. 

And can you tell me what countries you are referring to. The data clearly shows that the more vaccinated a country, town, state is, the lower the case fatality rate. 

https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/new-study-shows-fewer-people-die-from-covid-19-in-better-vaccinated-communities/

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(22)00417-0/fulltext

Thanks for bothering to respond to the gibberish 😊.

It's actually been heartening to see a more serious attempt by people to engage here in the last few days than when sides were drawn up (sadly) almost 12 months ago!

Back then, Stokz and I were peddling "misinformation" when we referred to "breakthrough cases" from data out of Israel, indicating waning immunity/ vaccine efficacy.

Times have changed.

Apologies for not getting the number of deaths correct for last year. I stopped paying attention some time ago. Not because it isn't terrible....

Like most here,  I spent the first 18 months of  the pandemic waiting for 11 am  briefings, listening to and believing every word of the "experts",  being grateful that we were being looked after so well.

And ignoring the alternative perspectives of a family member, whom I forced myself to listen to every locked down day...to save his sanity.

I'd thought to myself, "Who the HELL is he listening to, to come up with this stuff"...and I finally invited him to show me.

After 18 months of half listening,  I finally developed the intellectual curiosity to find out what this frustrating alternative perspective was. And I hoped to figure out how to stage some sort of intervention, to rescue him! 

Instead, I shifted my perspective quite dramatically in the space of a few weeks (LOL...rest assured the Daily Mail was NOT ever a source consulted).

My perspective shift cost me my job, my identity/daily life as a teacher, my marriage (already weak), my relationship with my sister, my credibility here a forumite, contact with a number of my colleagues/friends.

It has given me an insight into who my friends are, and a profound, almost-year-long insight into what being labelled as a selfish, socially irresponsible pariah feels like.

Do I wish I had never gone down the rabbit-hole? Probably...on one level.

Would I undo where I am at the moment?  No. It's been a solid test, and I feel like I am in the right place.

Do I know where all this is heading, and where we'll all be (meaning society) in 12 months. No. But it's hard to feel optimistic.

PS Thanks to Mack for allowing a bit of sharing of perspectives here again...despite his irritation at the topic.

 

 

[mack]

I'm not "allowing it", you just wore me down with restlessly ignoring what I asked you to do, and I can't be bothered wasting my time purging threads again.

[Cynth]

1 hour ago, wendybr said:

Thanks for bothering to respond to the gibberish 😊.

It's actually been heartening to see a more serious attempt by people to engage here in the last few days than when sides were drawn up (sadly) almost 12 months ago!

Back then, Stokz and I were peddling "misinformation" when we referred to "breakthrough cases" from data out of Israel, indicating waning immunity/ vaccine efficacy.

Times have changed.

Apologies for not getting the number of deaths correct for last year. I stopped paying attention some time ago. Not because it isn't terrible....

Like most here,  I spent the first 18 months of  the pandemic waiting for 11 am  briefings, listening to and believing every word of the "experts",  being grateful that we were being looked after so well.

And ignoring the alternative perspectives of a family member, whom I forced myself to listen to every locked down day...to save his sanity.

I'd thought to myself, "Who the HELL is he listening to, to come up with this stuff"...and I finally invited him to show me.

After 18 months of half listening,  I finally developed the intellectual curiosity to find out what this frustrating alternative perspective was. And I hoped to figure out how to stage some sort of intervention, to rescue him! 

Instead, I shifted my perspective quite dramatically in the space of a few weeks (LOL...rest assured the Daily Mail was NOT ever a source consulted).

My perspective shift cost me my job, my identity/daily life as a teacher, my marriage (already weak), my relationship with my sister, my credibility here a forumite, contact with a number of my colleagues/friends.

It has given me an insight into who my friends are, and a profound, almost-year-long insight into what being labelled as a selfish, socially irresponsible pariah feels like.

Do I wish I had never gone down the rabbit-hole? Probably...on one level.

Would I undo where I am at the moment?  No. It's been a solid test, and I feel like I am in the right place.

Do I know where all this is heading, and where we'll all be (meaning society) in 12 months. No. But it's hard to feel optimistic.

PS Thanks to Mack for allowing a bit of sharing of perspectives here again...despite his irritation at the topic.

This is too sad. Perhaps your friends were the ones who tried to keep you out of the rabbit hole. Perhaps they were the ones who cared the most. 

I’m sorry for your losses.

But if you feel you are in the right place then so be it. 

[Zelinsky]

1 hour ago, wendybr said:

But it's hard to feel optimistic.

Because there so little light down there, it’s a defining feature of rabbit holes.

No one knows where we are all will be in 12 months, but there is an excellent chance that the sun will continue to rise in the East, and set in the West after doing its daily round. The sun will still shine on those who come after us. As it always has.

Very sad to hear about your personal circumstances. I sincerely hope for your sake that the “right place” you are finding yourself in proofs solid enough. 

And no, you weren’t spreading misinformation, but actively promoting disinformation. Hence the push back at least here.

Good luck. 

 

[Stokz]

Haha "promoting disinformation" - Funny how that disinformation turned out to be true 

[pseudonym]

 

[StringerBellend]

10 hours ago, wendybr said:

Thanks for bothering to respond to the gibberish 😊.

It's actually been heartening to see a more serious attempt by people to engage here in the last few days than when sides were drawn up (sadly) almost 12 months ago!

Back then, Stokz and I were peddling "misinformation" when we referred to "breakthrough cases" from data out of Israel, indicating waning immunity/ vaccine efficacy.

Times have changed.

Apologies for not getting the number of deaths correct for last year. I stopped paying attention some time ago. Not because it isn't terrible....

Like most here,  I spent the first 18 months of  the pandemic waiting for 11 am  briefings, listening to and believing every word of the "experts",  being grateful that we were being looked after so well.

And ignoring the alternative perspectives of a family member, whom I forced myself to listen to every locked down day...to save his sanity.

I'd thought to myself, "Who the HELL is he listening to, to come up with this stuff"...and I finally invited him to show me.

After 18 months of half listening,  I finally developed the intellectual curiosity to find out what this frustrating alternative perspective was. And I hoped to figure out how to stage some sort of intervention, to rescue him! 

Instead, I shifted my perspective quite dramatically in the space of a few weeks (LOL...rest assured the Daily Mail was NOT ever a source consulted).

My perspective shift cost me my job, my identity/daily life as a teacher, my marriage (already weak), my relationship with my sister, my credibility here a forumite, contact with a number of my colleagues/friends.

It has given me an insight into who my friends are, and a profound, almost-year-long insight into what being labelled as a selfish, socially irresponsible pariah feels like.

Do I wish I had never gone down the rabbit-hole? Probably...on one level.

Would I undo where I am at the moment?  No. It's been a solid test, and I feel like I am in the right place.

Do I know where all this is heading, and where we'll all be (meaning society) in 12 months. No. But it's hard to feel optimistic.

PS Thanks to Mack for allowing a bit of sharing of perspectives here again...despite his irritation at the topic.

 

 

Wendy that's a very very hard read. I'm geniuelly sorry how this has gone for you. It's another horrible side effect of the pandemic that as people have gone down these holes friends and families have broken up.

@Cynth has put it better than me already (as usual) but I would ask you think about friends with that they have been trying to keep you from going to far down a black hole (that even though you may see as correct, they geniuelly don't and don't see as a good place to be)

I'm sad and I'm angry too..Im angry as to where all this stuff is taking people. It's not good.

I hope when I see you at games we can say hello, but Id understand too if you think I'm a nobhead 

Take care and hope some time heals things 

[theguyyouwishyouwere]

13 hours ago, Edinburgh said:

Back then it was one income not two.

so you're saying back then you could buy a house with one income? so if things got tough you could always get the non-working partner to get an income to help? but now it takes two incomes to buy a house and it's not as hard? i'm no accountant but one income per house seems twice as good as two incomes per house.

[Edinburgh]

13 minutes ago, theguyyouwishyouwere said:

so you're saying back then you could buy a house with one income? so if things got tough you could always get the non-working partner to get an income to help? but now it takes two incomes to buy a house and it's not as hard? i'm no accountant but one income per house seems twice as good as two incomes per house.

No jobs available and/or no childcare available. 

So many other factors involved in housing affordability. 

Comparing wage rates is just one and even then the comparison should be disposable income rather than gross income. 

[Carns]

I know a lot of people now who have two decent incomes and will still never be able to afford a home without help. Saving for a deposit at current house prices is unachievable for many if they don't have the 'luxury' of moving home with their parents and not paying rent for a while or are given financial help.

Current house prices are at least 10 times the average wage whereas when many of our parents bought it was 4 times the average wage.

There are now and always were challenges for home ownership, but today is arguably one of the most difficult periods if you want to live in Sydney or Melbourne (and many people don't have the choice of not living in one of the big cities).

[Smoggy]

Every generation faces its own particular challenges. Debating who’s challenges are harder is a bit like the Monty Python Yorkshireman sketch. 
 

Us youngsters who look back at Ed’s generation do look back with misguided envy, but then I think the boomer generation are out touch with the difficulties of today as well. So some of one and a bit of the other…

Edited July 21, 2022 by Smoggy

[StringerBellend]

1 hour ago, Edinburgh said:

No jobs available and/or no childcare available. 

So many other factors involved in housing affordability. 

Comparing wage rates is just one and even then the comparison should be disposable income rather than gross income. 

Loads of different things in there.. I started a reply but went all over the place and deleted it.

But yep availability of work is a big thing. I think to my family emigrating from Liverpool in the Thatcher years to Australia for a better future for me.

I'd say for the 'kids' of today it isn't easy, house prices in any area that is near where jobs are astronomical, as is rent. 

For me I was lucky to live the Uni Student Newtown lifestyle, wasn't easy had to work crappy jobs, get into debt but I could do it. Now I look at rent near the big Unis, and I really don't see how it can be done without well off parents. 

Basically if you want to buy now (unless mummy and daddy give you the deposit) then you are both working, and you are probably looking at a unit.

 

[Smoggy]

9 minutes ago, StringerBellend said:

Loads of different things in there.. I started a reply but went all over the place and deleted it.

But yep availability of work is a big thing. I think to my family emigrating from Liverpool in the Thatcher years to Australia for a better future for me.

I'd say for the 'kids' of today it isn't easy, house prices in any area that is near where jobs are astronomical, as is rent. 

For me I was lucky to live the Uni Student Newtown lifestyle, wasn't easy had to work crappy jobs, get into debt but I could do it. Now I look at rent near the big Unis, and I really don't see how it can be done without well off parents. 

Basically if you want to buy now (unless mummy and daddy give you the deposit) then you are both working, and you are probably looking at a unit.

 

I think for our boomer parents (yours Liverpool and mine Middlesbrough) there is nothing today that can replicate the depravity and misery of the late 70's and 80's. I can genuinely sit here and write that as a kid I was hungry, food wasn't always available. You took home the left overseas of the Sunday roast from your grandparents and would be fashioned in to different meals until Wednesday. Only Thurs, Fri and Sat did we buy anything to eat.

There is nothing I see in Aus or UK these days that replicates that....YET...

Edited July 21, 2022 by Smoggy

[StringerBellend]

3 hours ago, Stokz said:

Haha "promoting disinformation" - Funny how that disinformation turned out to be true 

None of it has been or at least none of the big claims 

 

Let's see 

Vaccine has been safe 

Vaccine has been effective 

Masks work 

The horse dip thing doesn't work 

It turns out the whole thing wasn't funded by Pfizer 

Hillary Clinton was not running a pedo ring from a pizza shop 

Trump did lose the election 

 

[theguyyouwishyouwere]

for the record 99% of the last 10 pages don't float my boat, but things not floating my boat could float someone else's boat.

[marron]

Yep I look at my student days, I was able to move out at 17, live practically in the city, no troubles. Inconceivable now. 

I also remember the inflation days. We were okay. Having meat - especially chicken - was a big deal. But I think expectations have changed. We never went on a holiday (aside from visiting family) till the 90s. We had one ancient telly and dad's 1970s sound system and the Commodore 64 he'd knocked off from work (kind of). That waa the only luxury item in the house.

 

[Legionista]

Yeah the expectation of what constitutes a decent standard of living has skyrocketed.

In a lot of cases people aren’t prepared to sacrifice anything to save up for a deposit. 

[marron]

42 minutes ago, Legionista said:

Yeah the expectation of what constitutes a decent standard of living has skyrocketed.

In a lot of cases people aren’t prepared to sacrifice anything to save up for a deposit. 

And I think that's true, but it also doesn't change that it's a ****tonne more difficult to save. Rent is insane. House prices are insane. Like I said above, I worked a few arvos/nights a week and could afford to live in Ultimo. That's unbelievable now.

[Stokz]

1 hour ago, StringerBellend said:

None of it has been or at least none of the big claims 

 

Let's see 

Vaccine has been safe 

Vaccine has been effective 

Masks work 

The horse dip thing doesn't work 

It turns out the whole thing wasn't funded by Pfizer 

Hillary Clinton was not running a pedo ring from a pizza shop 

Trump did lose the election 

 

 

 Safe and effective. 

[Smoggy]

1 hour ago, marron said:

Yep I look at my student days, I was able to move out at 17, live practically in the city, no troubles. Inconceivable now. 

I also remember the inflation days. We were okay. Having meat - especially chicken - was a big deal. But I think expectations have changed. We never went on a holiday (aside from visiting family) till the 90s. We had one ancient telly and dad's 1970s sound system and the Commodore 64 he'd knocked off from work (kind of). That waa the only luxury item in the house.

 

Similar to you, things changed for us for the better in the early 90’s, think it did for many. 

[Smoggy]

1 hour ago, Legionista said:

Yeah the expectation of what constitutes a decent standard of living has skyrocketed.

In a lot of cases people aren’t prepared to sacrifice anything to save up for a deposit. 

Saving here…not owned a car for 8 years. Only been back to see family in the UK once in a decade. We have saved well, but the goalposts have shifted constantly. 

Waits for someone to ask where are we looking and why don’t we look such and such place…you are looking at units in too expansive places blah blah blah lol…

[Wobblies]

2 hours ago, Smoggy said:

I think for our boomer parents (yours Liverpool and mine Middlesbrough) there is nothing today that can replicate the depravity and misery of the late 70's and 80's. I can genuinely sit here and write that as a kid I was hungry, food wasn't always available. You took home the left overseas of the Sunday roast from your grandparents and would be fashioned in to different meals until Wednesday. Only Thurs, Fri and Sat did we buy anything to eat.

There is nothing I see in Aus or UK these days that replicates that....YET...

Currently in the UK there are approx 3,000 foodbanks, 10 years ago you could count them without running out of toes and fingers. I wonder what's happened?

[wendybr]

30 minutes ago, Stokz said:

 

 Safe and effective. 

Yep...that's been part of my reading down the rabbit hole this morning. 

Been following some debate over one in 5000 people, or one in 5000 shots, which I think it is.

Given people may get 3 or 4 shots, this is a pretty ugly stat for serious adverse events.

Is it likely to affect any one individual? Nope.

But has this affected 10s of thousands of people world wide?

It sadly has.

[Wobblies]

With the said financial difficulties of purchasing a home today as opposed to times gone by. No one (could be mistaken) has mentioned a significant factor in all of this in recent times, that being the deliberate suppression of Wage rises over the past 10 years. It's not rocket surgery FFS. Press 1 for yes Press 2 for no. 

[Cynth]

37 minutes ago, Stokz said:

 

 Safe and effective. 

So there is one fiftieth of one percent chance of a serious adverse effect after vaccine (0.02%) (in Germany) 

There is a 0.1% chance of death from Covid. (Higher if unvaccinated)

The vaccine protects you to  high degree from hospitalisation and death from Covid.

By your own statement, Covid is nothing to be afraid of. 

But you are 5 times more likely to die of Covid then have a serious adverse event after vaccine. 
 

So if Covid is nothing to be afraid of than the vaccine isn’t either right? By your own logic, 

[marron]

advertising at macquarie uni, lol.

[Cynth]

11 minutes ago, marron said:

advertising at macquarie uni, lol.

wow she’s still a poster girl for the right…..

[Legionista]

Person*