What Floats Your Boat 4

[StringerBellend]

1 hour ago, Cynth said:

How so, my friend? Not sure what you think the hymn sheet says because I think it’s a broad church. I have sung from the same hymn sheet all along. 

This coming from the guy who dogmatically believes in every man for himself as a rule

[Wobblies]

Moving forward say 10 or 15 years and a young person asks you what was it like during the Covid 19 outbreak?. Well son it was an absolute nightmare, awful, barely survived. Young person says how? Well son, I had to wear a Mask when going to crowded indoor venues like supermarkets, cinemas etc.

If wearing a mask on occasions is the worst one has to endure in these times then some precious people have got serious issues and I mean serious ******* issues.

[Cynth]

20 minutes ago, Wobblies said:

Moving forward say 10 or 15 years and a young person asks you what was it like during the Covid 19 outbreak?. Well son it was an absolute nightmare, awful, barely survived. Young person says how? Well son, I had to wear a Mask when going to crowded indoor venues like supermarkets, cinemas etc.

If wearing a mask on occasions is the worst one has to endure in these times then some precious people have got serious issues and I mean serious ******* issues.

So true. 

[Legionista]

So bad. 

Absolutely horrible.

haha.

The argument. Not the masks. 

[Cynth]

2 minutes ago, Legionista said:

So bad. 

Absolutely horrible.

haha.

The argument. Not the masks. 

Why?

(this is a direct question so you have to answer, your rules)

[Zelinsky]

Fun fact: a friend of mine is diluting a substance that is used for cleaning swimming pools, and swears that it is the reason why he has not caught covid yet (as far as he is aware of). Needless to say he is strongly against vaccination, and also threw in a story that Nazis in Ukraine massacred Russians, and that these atrocities led to the invasion of Ukraine.

Donald and Adolf, any comments?

[Stokz]

Do people think masks actually make a difference ahhahahah

The single use or Gucci TM masks that people keep in their pockets and cars for weeks.... right.

[Stokz]

All these lockdowns, sterilization, masks have seriously f'd our and most importantly kids immune systems.

I've never seen more kids away at my kids school - some days it was like 15-18 kids. 

Before lockdowns it was 3-4 at most. 

My kids seem to be getting sick on a 3-4 week rotation. 

Kids need germs to build their immune systems and we basically said - stop that for 2.5 years and then this winter it all just exploded. 

[Zelinsky]

2 hours ago, Stokz said:

But people actually did do that .... 96% vaxxed

Pity the vaccines do f all for these new strains.

The joys of dealing with a novel virus.

Influenza has been around for a while, as have flu shots. In almost 100 years, the best we have come up with is an annual jab which is outdated by the time it is made available, plus medication like tamiflu to soften the blow once someone got infected. What might that tells us for the road ahead with covid?

[Zelinsky]

14 minutes ago, Stokz said:

Do people think masks actually make a difference ahhahahah

The single use or Gucci TM masks that people keep in their pockets and cars for weeks.... right.

See for yourself.

 

[StringerBellend]

2 minutes ago, Zelinsky said:

The joys of dealing with a novel virus.

Influenza has been around for a while, as have flu shots. In almost 100 years, the best we have come up with is an annual jab which is outdated by the time it is made available, plus medication like tamiflu to soften the blow once someone got infected. What might that tells us for the road ahead with covid?

@Stokz The vaccine doens far from f all, it stops people dying and getting seriously ill. It massively reduces the amount of people who go to ICU.

Yes you need yearly, repeats

It doesn't entirely stop people getting sick or the spread. Be great if it did but it doesn't

If you combine the Vaccine with Masks (in particular in areas of close contact) and other responsbile health measures it does a decent job.

Unfortunatly the virus has not agreed to go away after a couple of shots

[StringerBellend]

13 minutes ago, Stokz said:

All these lockdowns, sterilization, masks have seriously f'd our and most importantly kids immune systems.

I've never seen more kids away at my kids school - some days it was like 15-18 kids. 

Before lockdowns it was 3-4 at most. 

My kids seem to be getting sick on a 3-4 week rotation. 

Kids need germs to build their immune systems and we basically said - stop that for 2.5 years and then this winter it all just exploded. 

Another amataur epidemiologist

You should apply

https://www.deakin.edu.au/articles/study-areas/health-sciences-and-allied-health/how-to-become-an-epidemiologist-careers-in-public-health

or write for the the daily mail

Edited July 20, 2022 by StringerBellend

[Zelinsky]

12 minutes ago, Stokz said:

 

Kids need germs to build their immune systems and we basically said - stop that for 2.5 years and then this winter it all just exploded. 

You are confusing bacterial with viral infections. We are not exposing our children to influenza on purpose.

[Stokz]

2 minutes ago, Zelinsky said:

The joys of dealing with a novel virus.

Influenza has been around for a while, as have flu shots. In almost 100 years, the best we have come up with is an annual jab which is outdated by the time it is made available, plus medication like tamiflu to soften the blow once someone got infected. What might that tells us for the road ahead with covid?

Agree - but then expect that people won't jump on boosters and/or flu jabs 

For some here those people are "selfish/entitled" etc

If vax doesnt prevent spread - then what people do is their own risk

 

[Cynth]

21 minutes ago, Stokz said:

Do people think masks actually make a difference ahhahahah

The single use or Gucci TM masks that people keep in their pockets and cars for weeks.... right.

Ummm, yeah if a mask is on your face it does make a difference. But it depends on the mask and it depends on the contact, it’s just an extra protection not a guarantee. Don’t know how many people you know wearing Gucci masks. We must mix in different circles, 

[Cynth]

12 minutes ago, Zelinsky said:

See for yourself.

 

Common bloody sense, what’s wrong with people. Do they thing surgeons wear them as a fashion statement?!

[StringerBellend]

3 minutes ago, Stokz said:

Agree - but then expect that people won't jump on boosters and/or flu jabs 

For some here those people are "selfish/entitled" etc

If vax doesnt prevent spread - then what people do is their own risk

 

It significantly lowers the spread, as does a mask. Like all vaccines the more people have it, the more effective it is as you collectively lower the odds of catching it and the amount of virus doing the rounds.. 

Also if somebody who is too selfish to get the vaccine and wear a mask, does get severe covid (and statistically the unvaccinated are massively overrepresented in ICU) then they expect someone who has been vaccinated to help them, and they take a bed and other resources from somebody who has or needs it for another less preventable reason.

But you've heard that before

[StringerBellend]

6 minutes ago, Cynth said:

Ummm, yeah if a mask is on your face it does make a difference. But it depends on the mask and it depends on the contact, it’s just an extra protection not a guarantee. Don’t know how many people you know wearing Gucci masks. We must mix in different circles, 

It also makes a far far bigger difference if it is also on the face of the people you encounter. 

[Cynth]

7 minutes ago, Stokz said:

Agree - but then expect that people won't jump on boosters and/or flu jabs 

For some here those people are "selfish/entitled" etc

If vax doesnt prevent spread - then what people do is their own risk

 

It DOES prevent spread, not at 100% and lower for Omicron variants but it does, and with masks and social distancing the risks are mitigated even more. It’s so frustrating that people are black and white, they want a guarantee! And the vax stops you entering hospital and dying, ( if you are boosted particularly) ugh!!

[Cynth]

39 minutes ago, Zelinsky said:

Fun fact: a friend of mine is diluting a substance that is used for cleaning swimming pools, and swears that it is the reason why he has not caught covid yet (as far as he is aware of). Needless to say he is strongly against vaccination, and also threw in a story that Nazis in Ukraine massacred Russians, and that these atrocities led to the invasion of Ukraine.

Donald and Adolf, any comments?

I think the swimming pool cleaner has affected his brain. As toxic chemicals are prone to do. 

[StringerBellend]

18 minutes ago, Cynth said:

Ummm, yeah if a mask is on your face it does make a difference. But it depends on the mask and it depends on the contact, it’s just an extra protection not a guarantee. Don’t know how many people you know wearing Gucci masks. We must mix in different circles, 

oh and i missed the bit about vaccines and masks by reducing the amount of COVID around slow the rate at which it mutates. If we are ever going to get on top of the variants then we need slow the rate of spread

[wendybr]

8 minutes ago, StringerBellend said:

If you combine the Vaccine with Masks (in particular in areas of close contact) and other responsbile health measures it does a decent job.

Pretty sure our death rate til the end on 2021 (ie after 2 years of the virus) was under 1000.

It's now over 10,000, 7 months into 2022 - yes?

Vaccines have been overwhelming our main 'stop the spread"/ "this is how we get back to normal " strategy. 

And they have done nothing of the sort. Numbers are higher in highly vaccinated nations globally. Some dissident (and silenced experts) predicted EXACTLY this since before the vaccines were rolled out.

Yes - sure, Omicron came along with its additional virulence and vastly higher infection numbers. Even Bill Gates...global vaccine guru (lol)...conceded that Omicron has done a better job than the vaccines to lessen the danger of the virus.

Yes -  other restrictions have been abandoned by many, although by no means all, and that will obviously have made a difference to the spread.

But..... by what evidence do you judge vaccines to have done a decent job.

[Zelinsky]

14 minutes ago, Stokz said:

Agree - but then expect that people won't jump on boosters and/or flu jabs 

For some here those people are "selfish/entitled" etc

If vax doesnt prevent spread - then what people do is their own risk

 

Preventing disease is one purpose of vaccination. In the case of covid this has worked until omicron arrived. But vaccination also reduces the risk of serious illness. That's why we have flu jabs. Not so much so you don't get the flu, but that it does not kill you should you get infected. Because you have anti bodies in your blood stream. That still applies for covid jabs.

The Spanish Flu created killing fields, and we saw a glimpse of that at the beginning of the pandemic in the UK, Italy, US. A family member of mine works in a retirement village where covid took out a quarter of the the elderly living there within a few weeks. That's what we have avoided by mass vaccination. Those who chose not to get vaccinated could do so, to an extent at least, because others did the heavy lifting for them. You are welcome.

Those who sit on a bus or train coughing and sneezing are exercising lack of care of those around them. If they were to wear a mask it would reduce the risk for others.

[Zelinsky]

23 minutes ago, Cynth said:

Common bloody sense, what’s wrong with people. Do they thing surgeons wear them as a fashion statement?!

The mask debate was turned into something about personal freedom and liberty. "If it doesn't protect me then I should be able to chose not to wear one." - that was and continues to be the argument. 

It is one of the great tragedies in this pandemic that politicians, media, commentators, experts etc have not been able to communicate a simple message - wearing a mask in a pandemic is not just about you, but at least equally about those around you.

In WW2, in times of black outs, everyone had to cover their windows and prevent the spread of light, to make it less likely for enemy bombs dropping on them. It was non negotiable. Wearing masks in a pandemic are also non negotiable, not a matter of personal choice or freedom.

[Legionista]

9 minutes ago, Zelinsky said:

In WW2, in times of black outs, everyone had to cover their windows and prevent the spread of light, to make it less likely for enemy bombs dropping on them. It was non negotiable. Wearing masks in a pandemic are also non negotiable, not a matter of personal choice or freedom.

Oh boy.

Lol. 

[Stokz]

Show me your proof that Vax significantly lowers spread for omnicron strain. Haven't seen that anywhere.

It worked well for Delta and preceding variants.

Most transmission of the virus is not by of an off-chance you walk into someones cough or sneeze - but rather environments where you spend a long time together, at home, at parties, at work etc.  In those settings,  masks are never worn or if they are worn, they worn incorrectly. 

Why does a nurse / surgeon only wear a mask once then throw it away.

 

 

[Smoggy]

Ugh, Mack, you know what to do.

[Unlimited]

WFMB: mask wearing

I find it keeps my face warmer in winter. Quite nice actually, might wear them every winter from now on.

[mack]

33 minutes ago, Smoggy said:

Ugh, Mack, you know what to do.

Ban everyone?

[Cynth]

1 hour ago, wendybr said:

Pretty sure our death rate til the end on 2021 (ie after 2 years of the virus) was under 1000.

It's now over 10,000, 7 months into 2022 - yes?

Vaccines have been overwhelming our main 'stop the spread"/ "this is how we get back to normal " strategy. 

And they have done nothing of the sort. Numbers are higher in highly vaccinated nations globally. Some dissident (and silenced experts) predicted EXACTLY this since before the vaccines were rolled out.

Yes - sure, Omicron came along with its additional virulence and vastly higher infection numbers. Even Bill Gates...global vaccine guru (lol)...conceded that Omicron has done a better job than the vaccines to lessen the danger of the virus.

Yes -  other restrictions have been abandoned by many, although by no means all, and that will obviously have made a difference to the spread.

But..... by what evidence do you judge vaccines to have done a decent job.

I can’t believe I’m bothering with this gibberish. 

1/ You are incorrect. Up till the end of 2021, 2239 had died (not 1000). 

2/ In 2022 to date, the deaths have climbed to 10000, and will continue to climb. 

3/ Common sense and a bit of mathematics will tell you the reasons for this, some of which I painstakingly spelt out before. 

4/ In 2020 and 2021, we had serious restrictions throughout the spikes in Covid outbreak, we were locked down, wearing masks, staying out of nursing homes, etc etc. This reduced the spread and the deaths to one of the best in the world. We also had vaccines, the clear data showing that the unvaccinated were up to 10-20 times more likely to die of Delta than the vaccinated. 

5/ Then we opened up, suddenly, no masks, no lockdown, return to work, holidays, the lot. That in itself was always going to increase transmission and hence death. In addition, it was time for boosters and hence some immunity protection was dropping. 

6/ Omicron came with a transmission rate at the very least 4 times higher than delta and with the current omicron strain, more like ten. 

7/ Whilst the case fatality rate dropped to 0.1% for the vaccinated, like I said before, 0.1% of a large number is much bigger than 2.7% of a small number. 

8/ So we have no restrictions, we have a **** ton of people contracting Covid, we have waning immunity as less people got boosters, all of which make the numbers of deaths increasing,  logical. 

• There is some good studies showing the increased protection that boosters give and the waning immunity if you stopped at two. There’s also ongoing evidence of a disproportionate amount of unvaccinated people dying at a younger median age than others too.
• But I waste my time. Logic does not change hearts and minds. 

 Oh and Bill Gates didn’t say that but it tells me the source of your info. 

And can you tell me what countries you are referring to. The data clearly shows that the more vaccinated a country, town, state is, the lower the case fatality rate. 

https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/new-study-shows-fewer-people-die-from-covid-19-in-better-vaccinated-communities/

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(22)00417-0/fulltext