The Refereeing Thread

[Prydzopolis]

Quick question for the refs:

 

Situation: Player is inside the box travelling parallel to the edge of the 18 yard box, player dives in & misses the ball them collects the player. It happened on the side of my assistant & he doesn't raise his flag. What do I do?

 

What I did: I let the play go on for a few seconds maybe 10 seconds while I went over to the assistant to check what he thought of it. He just says, penalty. Now apparently it didn't look professional that I waited & to make my decision after checking with assistant. It's a final I don't want to make a wrong decision when then game is 0-0. The assistant should have flagged but maybe he wasn't sure & possibly he was quite young too.

 

Should I have:

A) Stay with what I did above?

B) Stopped the game where the foul occurred, checked with my assistant, if he says no - drop ball, if he says foul - penalty?

C) Gone with my initial instinct & give the penalty. Can I then go back on my decision?

 

The senior referee who was taking the game after me said I should have gone with my initial instinct. It was just that I was about 5-10m from the D (so maybe 25m away from the incident) with a few bodies in the way where there was 10 minutes to go with the score 0-0. If I was by myself, I would have just given it but I wanted to be 100% sure. Although I couldn't be 100% sure I was pretty convinced it was a foul & had it been anywhere else on the pitch I would have blown without hesitation.

[Wanderer74]

Just above on changing your decision. I don't think its a good idea to show weakness by admitting you are wrong. Players will eat that up.

[AEK]

Option C, the defending player dived in and missed the ball and collected the player, no second opinions required

[Prydzopolis]

Just above on changing your decision. I don't think its a good idea to show weakness by admitting you are wrong. Players will eat that up.

I didn't change my decision, just delayed my decision. Wanted to be sure of the penalty but I can see how it would appear that might be the case.

Option C, the defending player dived in and missed the ball and collected the player, no second opinions required

Haha, yeh probably what I should have done, as I said, it's a final & don't want to call a penalty when the assistant had a better view could have assisted in my decision making.

[Nnnnnathan12]

ahhhh, good question.

It really depends on how experienced your assistant is and how well you both have a working knowledge of each other.
If I have an assistant that I trust and know what they're doing or If I was the assistant this is what I've been told to do.

If the AR sees a penalty and they believe that it is one, the first rule is to keep your flag down.
The worst thing that the AR can do is put up their flag, because it's not their decision to make, it's the referee's.
However if the referee is unsure if it is a penalty or not what I was told to do is for the AR to sprint down to the corner flag and place their flag behind their back and nod.  like that lol

It's a sublte signal that not many people in the ground will see because they'll all be looking at the referee to make a decision,

When it's a penalty kick 95% of the time you as the referee should be making the decision, however there may be the odd occasion when you get caught out and might not see everything.

It's easier for you and the AR, if the AR runs down the corner flag signalling that he thinks that its a penalty however you definitely believe that it wasn't, then play continues and the AR goes back to the second last defender,
Instead of the AR standing there like an idiot waving their flag and you saying no penalty and then the attacking team carry on because they saw the flag go up 

Edited August 30, 2015 by Nnnnnathan12

[Alexander]

ahhhh, good question.

 

It really depends on how experienced your assistant is and how well you both have a working knowledge of each other.

If I have an assistant that I trust and know what they're doing or If I was the assistant this is what I've been told to do.

 

If the AR sees a penalty and they believe that it is one, the first rule is to keep your flag down.

The worst thing that the AR can do is put up their flag, because it's not their decision to make, it's the referee's.

However if the referee is unsure if it is a penalty or not what I was told to do is for the AR to sprint down to the corner flag and place their flag behind their back and nod.  like that lol

 

It's a sublte signal that not many people in the ground will see because they'll all be looking at the referee to make a decision,

 

When it's a penalty kick 95% of the time you as the referee should be making the decision, however there may be the odd occasion when you get caught out and might not see everything.

 

It's easier for you and the AR, if the AR runs down the corner flag signalling that he thinks that its a penalty however you definitely believe that it wasn't, then play continues and the AR goes back to the second last defender,

Instead of the AR standing there like an idiot waving their flag and you saying no penalty and then the attacking team carry on because they saw the flag go up 

 

I understand why they do it, but wouldn't that compromise the AR's ability to judge offside if the referee disagrees with them? As a player I would likely carry on regardless of whether the AR waved their flag or not.

[mack]

Looking at the rules, the assistant only flags for fouls if close to them or the referees view was obstructed.

 

If you can see the foul you need to make a call based on what you saw. If your view was obstructed, then if you take no action, the assistant can raise the flag then move towards the corner flag to indicate a foul.

 

As for it being inside or not, you can talk to the assistant to make your decision on it being a free kick or penalty.

 

I understand why they do it, but wouldn't that compromise the AR's ability to judge offside if the referee disagrees with them? As a player I would likely carry on regardless of whether the AR waved their flag or not.

The ref makes the final call. As an example, an AR might flag an offside, but the referee can see that it was a defender who tackled the ball away and not a pass. The ref can over-rule/ignore it.

[Nnnnnathan12]

for example, 

Let's say that in this example to roles are reversed, 
The AR puts up his flag and the referee doesn't blow his whistle.

It leads to mass confusion and players from both sides arguing with the referee.

The best way to handle the situation is that if the AR has a better view is that he doesn't stand there with his flag because if the referee disagree's with him then all hell would break loose
 

 

ahhhh, good question.

It really depends on how experienced your assistant is and how well you both have a working knowledge of each other.
If I have an assistant that I trust and know what they're doing or If I was the assistant this is what I've been told to do.

If the AR sees a penalty and they believe that it is one, the first rule is to keep your flag down.
The worst thing that the AR can do is put up their flag, because it's not their decision to make, it's the referee's.
However if the referee is unsure if it is a penalty or not what I was told to do is for the AR to sprint down to the corner flag and place their flag behind their back and nod.  like that lol

It's a sublte signal that not many people in the ground will see because they'll all be looking at the referee to make a decision,

When it's a penalty kick 95% of the time you as the referee should be making the decision, however there may be the odd occasion when you get caught out and might not see everything.

It's easier for you and the AR, if the AR runs down the corner flag signalling that he thinks that its a penalty however you definitely believe that it wasn't, then play continues and the AR goes back to the second last defender,
Instead of the AR standing there like an idiot waving their flag and you saying no penalty and then the attacking team carry on because they saw the flag go up 

 

I understand why they do it, but wouldn't that compromise the AR's ability to judge offside if the referee disagrees with them? As a player I would likely carry on regardless of whether the AR waved their flag or not.

 

That would be because in Law 6 'The Assistant Referee'
One of his responsibilities is to indicate when a player is offside

Edited August 30, 2015 by Nnnnnathan12

[Prydzopolis]

Ahhhhhhhh..... That makes so much sense!!!!!!!!!!

 

Yes, the assistant I had was maybe 13-15 & it was the first time I've had him as an assistant. To tell you the truth it's the first time that I've had an AR & had a penalty to call.

 

So he was right in not raising his flag but should have made a move to the corner flag (as he thought it was a penalty). Can't blame the kid as he probably didn't know what to do & if it was me I would have probably raised my flag (like an idiot) if I was AR in his position.

 

Yes, look I was probably 85% certain that it was a penalty but I just felt the AR had a better view of the incident just in case the defender got the ball first. Many thanks Nathan, great advice

[mack]

So he was right in not raising his flag but should have made a move to the corner flag (as he thought it was a penalty).

Only if he thought you had seen the foul, because it's your call to make. If he thought you hadn't, then once you took no action, he should have raised the flag and moved to the corner post, and at that point the ref would have noticed that and either waved play on or awarded the penalty.

[Nnnnnathan12]

Ahhhhhhhh..... That makes so much sense!!!!!!!!!!

 

Yes, the assistant I had was maybe 13-15 & it was the first time I've had him as an assistant. To tell you the truth it's the first time that I've had an AR & had a penalty to call.

 

So he was right in not raising his flag but should have made a move to the corner flag (as he thought it was a penalty). Can't blame the kid as he probably didn't know what to do & if it was me I would have probably raised my flag (like an idiot) if I was AR in his position.

 

Yes, look I was probably 85% certain that it was a penalty but I just felt the AR had a better view of the incident just in case the defender got the ball first. Many thanks Nathan, great advice

Note that running down to the corner flag with their flag behind their back is not an official signal by the laws of the game, 

It states that the AR should raise their flag.

 

Then referee disagree's, then idiot kid AR keeps their flag up because they were told to stand by their decisions ( most likely by you, older and more experienced referee).

Then everything falls to shite.

 

Just another technique that I believe is a better way of handling a potentiallly bad situation.

I believe at some point that that was the actual way (running to the corner flag) that the FFA were teaching for it to happen but I can't remember if it stayed or not

[Prydzopolis]

Looking at the rules, the assistant only flags for fouls if close to them or the referees view was obstructed.If you can see the foul you need to make a call based on what you saw. If your view was obstructed, then if you take no action, the assistant can raise the flag then move towards the corner flag to indicate a foul.As for it being inside or not, you can talk to the assistant to make your decision on it being a free kick or penalty.

I understand why they do it, but wouldn't that compromise the AR's ability to judge offside if the referee disagrees with them? As a player I would likely carry on regardless of whether the AR waved their flag or not.

The ref makes the final call. As an example, an AR might flag an offside, but the referee can see that it was a defender who tackled the ball away and not a pass. The ref can over-rule/ignore it.

I could see the foul, was obstructed by the position of the attackers body & the defender diving in off his feet in front of the attacker, is that an obstructed view? Or does it mean obstruction by players being in your way?

 

I understand what you're saying but it's a final, do I really want to be making such a margin call, when the scores are level & it's late in the match when I've got another pair of eyes? If I had a mic, then it'd be easy but don't have that luxury.

[Nnnnnathan12]

It really comes down to trust with your AR, it can take a long time to build from the first time that you referee with them.

Obviously not ideal if it's a final and it's the first or one of the first few times that you've officiated with them

[Prydzopolis]

It really comes down to trust with your AR, it can take a long time to build from the first time that you referee with them.

Obviously not ideal if it's a final and it's the first or one of the first few times that you've officiated with them

Yeh doesn't help but what can you do, if you were the referee with an assistant that you don't have a working relationship with & something similar happens. You're 85% sure it's a penalty but want to confirm with your assistant (he doesn't move or raise his flag)?

Should I have:

A) Stay with what I did above?

B) Stopped the game where the foul occurred, checked with my assistant, if he says no - drop ball, if he says foul - penalty?

C) Gone with my initial instinct & give the penalty. Can I then go back on my decision?

[AEK]

You need to start trusting in yourself and your decisions, grow your confidence, if you think it's a foul, call it, don't worry about what the assistant thinks, you can always over rule him.

[Prydzopolis]

You need to start trusting in yourself and your decisions, grow your confidence, if you think it's a foul, call it, don't worry about what the assistant thinks, you can always over rule him.

Yeh I know, but what if the AR has seen something that I haven't? For example, I think it's a pen but the AR sees the player gets the ball? Then I make a howler in a final?

[Nnnnnathan12]

 

You need to start trusting in yourself and your decisions, grow your confidence, if you think it's a foul, call it, don't worry about what the assistant thinks, you can always over rule him.

Yeh I know, but what if the AR has seen something that I haven't? For example, I think it's a pen but the AR sees the player gets the ball? Then I make a howler in a final?

 

well if there's no video evidence then theres technically no proof that it's a howler, 

 

Unless it's Jared Gillet against Perth Glory in the finals bad...

[Unlimited]

I think we should rename this thread to "Extremely Difficult Refereeing Scenarios Discussion Thread"

[Prydzopolis]

I think we should rename this thread to "Extremely Difficult Refereeing Scenarios Discussion Thread"

 

Okay your turn Unlimited

 

 

You need to start trusting in yourself and your decisions, grow your confidence, if you think it's a foul, call it, don't worry about what the assistant thinks, you can always over rule him.

 

Yeh I know, but what if the AR has seen something that I haven't? For example, I think it's a pen but the AR sees the player gets the ball? Then I make a howler in a final?

well if there's no video evidence then theres technically no proof that it's a howler,

Unless it's Jared Gillet against Perth Glory in the finals bad...

Yes there was a video taken of the match & yes there was a sizeable crowd in the stands watching. It's just that my view was blocked but I have a feeling you're just saying go with your gut feeling?

[Nnnnnathan12]

I've always felt that going with your gut feeling is often a good way to go, 
The more experienced and more respected referee will often get the key decisions correct not by analyzing everything in their head before making he decision, but by instinct.

It's the same with serious foul play, you have a split second decision to make when your going to send a player off for a bad tackle, 

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then chances are that its a duck.
You'll learn from experiences such as this, and know next time what to do and how to handle the situation better

[Prydzopolis]

Many thanks for the advice Nathan

[West13]

Its just not working. These farkers have become complacent and secure in their jobs rather than accountable.

[Prydzopolis]

Its just not working. These farkers have become complacent and secure in their jobs rather than accountable.

CB can't be one of them? Surely not....

[West13]

 

Its just not working. These farkers have become complacent and secure in their jobs rather than accountable.

CB can't be one of them? Surely not....

Yep! He is

[Prydzopolis]

 

 

Its just not working. These farkers have become complacent and secure in their jobs rather than accountable.

CB can't be one of them? Surely not....

Yep! He is

Replace with

[Prydzopolis]

Question with the offside rule:

 

It states that "any part of your body that could score a goal" or something along those lines. I'm just wondering whether it means "if" it touches that part of your body in an offside position, then it's offside?

 

For example, second line call in the Adelaide game. Pablo Sanchez's head was in an offside position & he used his head to score the goal = offside. However, had his foot being offside but head onside, scoring with his head... Would he have been onside or offside?

[Unlimited]

Question with the offside rule:

 

It states that "any part of your body that could score a goal" or something along those lines. I'm just wondering whether it means "if" it touches that part of your body in an offside position, then it's offside?

 

For example, second line call in the Adelaide game. Pablo Sanchez's head was in an offside position & he used his head to score the goal = offside. However, had his foot being offside but head onside, scoring with his head... Would he have been onside or offside?

 

offside always - doesn't matter what part of your body is used, as long as a score-able part of your body is offside, then you're offside

 

 

Offside rule is complicated enough as is, if we had to start tracking what exactly was offside...

[mack]

You're reading it wrong.

 

It's not about touching the ball, it's about your body position being when the ball is played.

 

The only body part the linesman can ignore is your arms.

[JackDoff]

 

Question with the offside rule:

It states that "any part of your body that could score a goal" or something along those lines. I'm just wondering whether it means "if" it touches that part of your body in an offside position, then it's offside?

For example, second line call in the Adelaide game. Pablo Sanchez's head was in an offside position & he used his head to score the goal = offside. However, had his foot being offside but head onside, scoring with his head... Would he have been onside or offside?

 

 

offside always - doesn't matter what part of your body is used, as long as a score-able part of your body is offside, then you're offside

 

 

Offside rule is complicated enough as is, if we had to start tracking what exactly was offside...

Does this include your arse? Slaters only goal for Australia came off his arse!!

[Unlimited]

 

 

Question with the offside rule:

It states that "any part of your body that could score a goal" or something along those lines. I'm just wondering whether it means "if" it touches that part of your body in an offside position, then it's offside?

For example, second line call in the Adelaide game. Pablo Sanchez's head was in an offside position & he used his head to score the goal = offside. However, had his foot being offside but head onside, scoring with his head... Would he have been onside or offside?

 

offside always - doesn't matter what part of your body is used, as long as a score-able part of your body is offside, then you're offside

 

 

Offside rule is complicated enough as is, if we had to start tracking what exactly was offside...

Does this include your arse? Slaters only goal for Australia came off his arse!!

 

 

didn't hersi score with his back or possibly backside once?

 

 

Or am I remembering things