The Refereeing Thread

Zelinsky · June 23, 2015

People haven't been just asking for full time professional referees. They have been asking for better refs. If a blind part time ref is promoted to full time pro ref it will not improve his eye sight. Should Williams, Green and KGJ be the chosen ones then blindness will enjoy even better protection.

I will get excited once I read about a professional development scheme for current and future refs.

Gazmon · June 23, 2015

It won't change much. It will help, but only minimally.

From my time in the national set up the biggest two issues were regular training as a group and technical sessions. You did do video sessions and post-match analysis stuff, but between that and your own self-development there wasn't much else done. Would be perfect to have 6-8 full time referees who were based in one city. They trained together as a normal team would and then the fourth officials and assistants would then join at certain times and still be on a part time basis. The issue there is money. Most referees will earn MUCH more having a full time job and part-time refereeing than being a full time referee.

TehSmileyBandit · June 23, 2015

What, exactly, will these full-time FFA employees be doing on non-match days? That's where the improvements will need to come from, the time spent on football instead of working in the bank/job site/Maccas/etc.

BrightSpark · June 23, 2015

What, exactly, will these full-time FFA employees be doing on non-match days? That's where the improvements will need to come from, the time spent on football instead of working in the bank/job site/Maccas/etc.

Yeah, let's hope that we do see the improvements on Match day.

Hopefully now that we have a few full timers, they will be able to travel interstate. I'm tired of seeing the same old biased ones at Pirtek every other game.

This should see us get a few newer refs during the season, that might be more level headed for a Wanderers game!

Hughesy · June 23, 2015

Making a few of them professional is really just an image thing in my opinion. I agree with the comments above, if they're on a full time contract, theres only so much learning, courses, reviewing, training etc that they can do before they run out of stuff. What do they do in the off season?

At the end of the day, you can train someone, make them read through the rule book one million times and review as many games as they can fit into a day but sometimes people just aren't good referees. While the rules are clear to read, interpretations, judgement and the dynamics of a game make refereeing a very subjective thing.

I'm not against this move, I just don't think it's going to bear fruit in the way the FFA do.

Gazmon · June 23, 2015

When I first started refereeing I was staunchly against the avenue of training ex-pro footballers into officials. But, as the years have progressed I have seen some merit in it. They understand the game at the highest level; they, no doubt, will still have a decent level of fitness; and with training to better understand the nuances of the laws of the game, could be made to be outstanding officials. It's worth a try at least.

I can understand the negatives and positives from the decision by the FFA. However, I don't think it will fix the problems that we have. In all honesty, I don't think our officials are that bad when compared to other parts of the world. We also have to take into account that we now have at least 8-cameras at matches and the scrutiny that comes with 100% match coverage. You see the same incident from a multitude of angles in slow-motion and all of a sudden we're all experts. It's easy to be the judge when you get that luxury. Watch the incident from the angle of the referee, at full speed, without knowing what is going to happen (there is always some level of anticipation, of course) and then make the call - it's not easy.

With all of that said, there have been some howlers that are inexcusable (Sarah Ho... looking at your offside, among others). The pace of the game has increased 10-fold over recent years and the referees are slowly stating to catch up. But, that gap doesn't get covered with full-time officials. It gets covered by better training (and more regular) as a unit, better coaches (and mentors) and allowing officials to explain decisions in the media (a bit controversial, but why not? Some of the comments I've listened to from Mark Shield on the Fox Football podcast have been wonderful).

There is also the discussion of video replays. I for one am strongly against it. I don't want our game turning into the modern day-NRL and ruin the flow that makes the game so appealing. I'm all for goal-line technology though. It's simple and easy to implement (providing the cost can be justified) and makes a nice talking point. There have been trials in lower divisions in Europe (Germany or The Netherlands if I am mistaken?) where they have a 5th-TV Official who sits on the half-way line with the 4th Official. They are then fed replays within 6-seconds of the incident and can immediately refer back to the main referee via their comms gear. They have only used it for major decisions leading to penalties, goals or cautions/send offs. It's not being used for throw-ins, corners, etc. Perhaps this is something the A-League would be willing to try?

Just one mans opinion of course, but I do come from 10+ years of refereeing at a local, state and national level and many A-League officials are personal friends.

DCWSW · June 24, 2015

Here's the job outline form on the FFA website:

Full Time Professional Referee OTE Salary: $85K-$105K including superannuation Football Federation Australia (FFA) is the national governing body for football in Australia. It governs all national teams (including the Socceroos and Westfield Matildas), the Hyundai A League, Westfield WLeague, Foxtel National Youth League and Westfield FFA Cup and also leads State, community and grass roots football. Football in Australia is enjoying unprecedented popularity and has made the breakthrough into the mainstream of the nation's sporting life. The growth is reflected at the grass roots with 1.96 million participants and in the professional tier with record attendances and TV ratings for the Hyundai ALeague. FFA is currently seeking three (3) full time professional referees to perform the role of Match Official in FFA National Club Competitions. The successful candidates will also contribute to an improvement in refereeing standards in these competitions, with specific focus on the Hyundai A-League. This role will report to the Director of Referees initially on a two-year contract. Duties & Responsibilities: ï‚· Discharge the powers and duties of Match Officials as per the Laws of the Game, with key responsibility for officiating in the Hyundai A-League. ï‚· Maintain a superior level of fitness commensurate with the expectations of a professional referee officiating professional players in an elite competition. ï‚· Attend group education and training sessions as required. ï‚· Undertake regular performance reviews consistent with the guidelines and expectations set by the Referees Department. ï‚· Participate in educational meetings and training sessions with non-refereeing stakeholders such as players, coaches and the media. ï‚· Participate in referee coaching seminars and provide referees within the FFA system with training, insight and the benefits of refereeing knowledge and experience. ï‚· Provide personal mentoring and coaching to individual referees at junior tournaments and referees within the FFA system. ï‚· Conduct media appearances as required and other appearances and promotions to meet commercial and game development requirements. ï‚· Undertake professional development activities as directed Experience and Skills Required The successful candidate will have proven on field performance and a demonstrated attitude expected of a professional referee. ï‚· FFA Level 1 referee accreditation, or overseas equivalent. ï‚· Demonstrated record of high performance as a referee in a professional national league / competition. ï‚· High level of football refereeing knowledge and experience. ï‚· Ability to work successfully in a team environment in a harmonious atmosphere. ï‚· Proven behaviour in accordance with the team values of FFA Match Officials. Apply now for this exciting opportunity by sending your resume and covering letter to recruitment@footballaustralia.com.au by 9am Monday 6th July 2015. For any questions relating to these roles please contact t

http://www.footballaustralia.com.au/dct/ffa-dtc-performgroup-eu-west-1/Full%20Time%20Professional%20Referee%20Job%20Ad_1c887lyxc0c0fztiktus78wdr.pdf

Edited June 24, 2015 by danielcarr

**Unlimited** · June 24, 2015

85-105k? Damn.

wswclaret · June 26, 2015

I recon on them wages we might get a couple of foreign applicants.

Nnnnnathan12 · June 26, 2015

When I first started refereeing I was staunchly against the avenue of training ex-pro footballers into officials. But, as the years have progressed I have seen some merit in it. They understand the game at the highest level; they, no doubt, will still have a decent level of fitness; and with training to better understand the nuances of the laws of the game, could be made to be outstanding officials. It's worth a try at least.

I think also the advantage of having ex-pros as referee's is that they players know who they are, and subconsciously they will have much more respect for them because they were once professional footballers as well.

Think about it, as a player who are you more likely to respect, Kris 100 free kicks a game Griffith Jones or someone like lets say Mark Viduka if he decided to take up refereeing (it would obviously take him a couple of years in the state leagues to get to A-League level)

I recon on them wages we might get a couple of foreign applicants.

That's an interesting one because it doesn't happen that much in europe to my knowledge,

in the Premier League in England all of the referee's are English,

I would've thought that with the money the PL has that they would employ the best referee's from all over the world

maybe there's a FIFA rule about it

DCWSW · June 26, 2015

That's an interesting one because it doesn't happen that much in europe to my knowledge,

in the Premier League in England all of the referee's are English,

I would've thought that with the money the PL has that they would employ the best referee's from all over the world

maybe there's a FIFA rule about it

In Saudi Arabia they employ referees from different countries, mainly European countries.

In the last Riyadh derby during the league season it was a scottish ref, the King Cup final there was an Italian ref

Prydzopolis · August 5, 2015

Thought I'd put it here cause it might get a bit more love

I was reading this morning about FIFA's change in the interpretation of the offside rule. Are there any referees in here that are familiar with it and can explain it to us lay people?

Check this article from Foxsports website, has picture explanations with it too

http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/new-offside-rule-could-lead-to-more-disallowed-goals-but-simpler-than-before-according-to-ex-epl-referee/story-e6frf423-1227470615058

Gazmon · August 5, 2015

Thought I'd put it here cause it might get a bit more love

I was reading this morning about FIFA's change in the interpretation of the offside rule. Are there any referees in here that are familiar with it and can explain it to us lay people?

Check this article from Foxsports website, has picture explanations with it too

http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/new-offside-rule-could-lead-to-more-disallowed-goals-but-simpler-than-before-according-to-ex-epl-referee/story-e6frf423-1227470615058

Basically it's just going to mean that if you're making a run for the ball or attempting it, even if you don't 'touch it', you will be called for 'interfering with play'. It's not a change to the law, just a tighter interpretation.

Wanderer74 · August 5, 2015

Thought I'd put it here cause it might get a bit more love

I was reading this morning about FIFA's change in the interpretation of the offside rule. Are there any referees in here that are familiar with it and can explain it to us lay people?

Check this article from Foxsports website, has picture explanations with it toohttp://www.foxsports.com.au/football/new-offside-rule-could-lead-to-more-disallowed-goals-but-simpler-than-before-according-to-ex-epl-referee/story-e6frf423-1227470615058

Basically it's just going to mean that if you're making a run for the ball or attempting it, even if you don't 'touch it', you will be called for 'interfering with play'. It's not a change to the law, just a tighter interpretation.

Does this mean that Ibini's interference in the goal in the first derby last season, was allowed last year, but would have been disallowed this year?

Was it even allowed last year?

Prydzopolis · August 5, 2015

Wanderer74, I'd say, it shouldn't have been allowed last year but with stricter interpretation there can be no doubts.

******

Fellow referees, how has your season been going?

Jowel · August 5, 2015

I have a question for the refs here.

How do you judge whether to award a direct free kick or an indirect free kick? There isn't a lot if commentary on this in the FIFA laws of the game. Am I right in thinking that most times you award a direct free kick and that indirect free kicks are much rarer to award?

Edited August 5, 2015 by Jowel

Gazmon · August 5, 2015

Thought I'd put it here cause it might get a bit more love

I was reading this morning about FIFA's change in the interpretation of the offside rule. Are there any referees in here that are familiar with it and can explain it to us lay people?

Check this article from Foxsports website, has picture explanations with it toohttp://www.foxsports.com.au/football/new-offside-rule-could-lead-to-more-disallowed-goals-but-simpler-than-before-according-to-ex-epl-referee/story-e6frf423-1227470615058

Basically it's just going to mean that if you're making a run for the ball or attempting it, even if you don't 'touch it', you will be called for 'interfering with play'. It's not a change to the law, just a tighter interpretation.

Does this mean that Ibini's interference in the goal in the first derby last season, was allowed last year, but would have been disallowed this year?

Was it even allowed last year?

That shouldn't have been allowed last year IMHO. But yes, would have 100% been given under the new interpretation.

I have a question for the refs here.

How do you judge whether to award a direct free kick or an indirect free kick? There isn't a lot if commentary on this in the FIFA laws of the game. Am I right in thinking that most times you award a direct free kick and that indirect free kicks are much rarer to award?

It depends on the type of offence.

Direct free kicks are for fouls, hand balls, etc.

Indirect free kicks are for offsides, interference, dangerous play (i.e. 'high foot'), 'back passes', etc.

Prydzopolis · August 6, 2015

Thought I'd put it here cause it might get a bit more love

I was reading this morning about FIFA's change in the interpretation of the offside rule. Are there any referees in here that are familiar with it and can explain it to us lay people?

Check this article from Foxsports website, has picture explanations with it toohttp://www.foxsports.com.au/football/new-offside-rule-could-lead-to-more-disallowed-goals-but-simpler-than-before-according-to-ex-epl-referee/story-e6frf423-1227470615058

Basically it's just going to mean that if you're making a run for the ball or attempting it, even if you don't 'touch it', you will be called for 'interfering with play'. It's not a change to the law, just a tighter interpretation.

Does this mean that Ibini's interference in the goal in the first derby last season, was allowed last year, but would have been disallowed this year?

Was it even allowed last year?

That shouldn't have been allowed last year IMHO. But yes, would have 100% been given under the new interpretation.

Huh? Goal given under new interpretation? Covic had to wait until Ibini was going to play the ball or not &he is standing in front of the keeper. Or are you saying that he didn't play at the ball so it would be given? I'd say that the fact that he was standing where he is would have affected the goal keeping decision making meaning he is offside.

Nnnnnathan12 · August 6, 2015

I have a question for the refs here.

How do you judge whether to award a direct free kick or an indirect free kick? There isn't a lot if commentary on this in the FIFA laws of the game. Am I right in thinking that most times you award a direct free kick and that indirect free kicks are much rarer to award?

Most times it's a direct free kick,

The most common indirect free kick apart from offside is playing in a dangerous manner,

This is usually for what most people call 'high foot'

I usually make it an IDFK if their high foot doesn't make contact with the opposing player.

If they make contact then I would make it a DFK because you could then have it as kicking an opponent in a careless, reckless or excessive force manner.

Just because foot is high doesn't make it a free kick, it has to be deemed as playing in a dangerous manner

Gazmon · August 6, 2015

Thought I'd put it here cause it might get a bit more love

I was reading this morning about FIFA's change in the interpretation of the offside rule. Are there any referees in here that are familiar with it and can explain it to us lay people?

Check this article from Foxsports website, has picture explanations with it toohttp://www.foxsports.com.au/football/new-offside-rule-could-lead-to-more-disallowed-goals-but-simpler-than-before-according-to-ex-epl-referee/story-e6frf423-1227470615058

Basically it's just going to mean that if you're making a run for the ball or attempting it, even if you don't 'touch it', you will be called for 'interfering with play'. It's not a change to the law, just a tighter interpretation.

Does this mean that Ibini's interference in the goal in the first derby last season, was allowed last year, but would have been disallowed this year?

Was it even allowed last year?

That shouldn't have been allowed last year IMHO. But yes, would have 100% been given under the new interpretation.

Huh? Goal given under new interpretation? Covic had to wait until Ibini was going to play the ball or not &he is standing in front of the keeper. Or are you saying that he didn't play at the ball so it would be given? I'd say that the fact that he was standing where he is would have affected the goal keeping decision making meaning he is offside.

Sorry, should read 100% NOT given... forgot the NOT!

Jowel · August 6, 2015

Thanks for the responses fellas

Alexander · August 9, 2015

So once the season begins, is this the thread we post in whenever we want to rant about refereeing decisions?

Prydzopolis · August 9, 2015

So once the season begins, is this the thread we post in whenever we want to rant about refereeing decisions?

Nah this is more about discussion about laws & amateur/professional refereeing. I think you're looking for this thread: http://www.westsydneyfootball.com/topic/5851-a-league-refereeing-eff-ups-201415/?hl=refereeing

Prydzopolis · August 14, 2015

Interesting on the conversation on the offside rule. It isn't actually a change in the laws, it is a change in the directives given to referees in order to make the offside law easier to understand.

Pup55 · August 14, 2015

Yep - referee over here.

Was freezing my ass off at Cook Park last night doing the 18s Nepean vs Hill State League Match.

Nnnnnathan12 · August 14, 2015

Interesting on the conversation on the offside rule. It isn't actually a change in the laws, it is a change in the directives given to referees in order to make the offside law easier to understand.

I think that simplifies it,

Now you shouldn't get the argument 'oh was he interfering with play or not'

But people will still argue it though

Prydzopolis · August 14, 2015

^^^^ People argue with the referee no matter how simple a call can be!

Nnnnnathan12 · August 14, 2015

So would Aloisi's goal against Japan in the '06 World Cup be counted as offside because Viduka was standing there and was kind of in the way?

Jowel · August 14, 2015

Another question, how does the process work for allowing a team to take a quick free kick? Do players have to wait at all for permission from the referee to do so? I would think not. In that case, can players quickly take the free unless the referee holds up play? In which case, is there really any need for ref to hold up play at all? What would be reasons refs hold it up? So many question...

**mack** · August 15, 2015

The rulebook:

If a player decides to take a free kick quickly and an opponent who is less than 9.15 m (10 yds) from the ball intercepts it, the referee must allow play to continue.

If a player decides to take a free kick quickly and an opponent who is near the ball deliberately prevents him taking the kick, the referee must caution the player for delaying the restart of play.

Important: Note that players inside the 10 yards aren't infringing if they intercept a quick free kick, only if they deliberately prevent the taking of it.

Now, extrapolating that outside the rules, it generally means that If the player wants the opposition back the 10 yards the ref stops the game, they can't take a quick free kick until that is done.

It also isn't illegal to stand inside the 10 yards, but you have to retreat in a timely fashion when asked by the ref.

Most refs will take away the opportunity for a quick free kick if they have to issue a card, if there was an injury/trainer come onto the field.

The Refereeing Thread

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