Sanctions From ACL Flare Incident

[Bob]

Let's get some perspective. It's illegal and it's stupid. Fireworks are dangerous and it's looked down upon.

 

I always like to balance the view:

 

While we all marvel at the illegal fireworks going off around the suburbs at New Years, the crowds jizz themselves when a six is hit in 20/20 and fire balls are let off; the league players are welcomed with squirting sparks from fireworks surrounding them while the games kick off with smoke still dissipating, we have to remember that when it's done at a soccer game it's violent and disgraceful. Fireworks are fireworks. Yes the other games have professionals letting them off but we will always have the argument that it brings nothing to the game, yet somehow brings something to every other sport, and there is no such outrage to speak of in the news about illegal fireworks the days following New Years, when every suburb has them going off. The stigma will never leave the game. But have you ever seen a flare up close? If that thing gets anywhere near a child who thinks it's a toy, it will not be pretty. I wouldn't want to see my daughter with burns, or come home with one eye. 

[dmixtaaa]

Let's get some perspective. It's illegal and it's stupid. Fireworks are dangerous and it's looked down upon.

 

I always like to balance the view:

 

While we all marvel at the illegal fireworks going off around the suburbs at New Years, the crowds jizz themselves when a six is hit in 20/20 and fire balls are let off; the league players are welcomed with squirting sparks from fireworks surrounding them while the games kick off with smoke still dissipating, we have to remember that when it's done at a soccer game it's violent and disgraceful. Fireworks are fireworks. Yes the other games have professionals letting them off but we will always have the argument that it brings nothing to the game, yet somehow brings something to every other sport, and there is no such outrage to speak of in the news about illegal fireworks the days following New Years, when every suburb has them going off. The stigma will never leave the game. But have you ever seen a flare up close? If that thing gets anywhere near a child who thinks it's a toy, it will not be pretty. I wouldn't want to see my daughter with burns, or come home with one eye. 

No me wooden eyether...

[pys]

Ahhh...what a roller-coaster ride it is to be a WSW supporter!! Sigh!!

and you thought you would be worried about the kids hsc this year.

[Rookoz]

 

 

I guess also the reason FFA went hard on us is since we are still technically owned I guess by the FFA, its their $30,000 in fine money they have to fork out.

The fines wouldn't be paid by the FFA directly, wouldn't the money would come from the club's books? I thought although the FFA owns WSW, they are two separate entities. Like if I owned the club I wouldn't be pulling the money out of my back pocket, it would come from the club's revenues, yeah?

From what I've heard Ffa will own the club for at least this financial year which means they will have responsibility of final profit/loss, so if the club runs at a 500k loss they will have to pay it but it looks like the club will run at a profit and Ffa will pocket the money then they will sell the club.

So yeah Ffa will be fitting the bill for this issue and I won't be surprised to see the fine be smaller than the 5k per flare seeing that they are paying for it. Once new owners take control they will have to pay for future fines that are set by Ffa and they will probably hit us harder than what they would of while they owned us.

 

 

 

This thread should be locked already its not doing any good

FFA will pocket $5million, the bosses of other clubs wants a cut. Read Michael Cockeril article at today's SMH (previous post couple of pages back).

 

Yep this thread pretty much done.

[jocosmic]

I love the flares. I'm sorry... I just do. I hate the stupid over reactions and irrelevant punishments handed out by the FFA.

[westofcentre]

I would very much doubt that the FFA would play games behind closed doors as it would mean a loss of revenue.

 

But I have been wrong many times before. If it happens maybe it will be forced onto them by the powers that be.

 

And on an another note, some of the attitudes on this forum have been dissapointing. Im not talking about peoples opinions. Everyone is entitled to one, but the respect for one another.

 

We are all Wanderers fans but some of the insults and attacks on other people are out of line.

 

But hey its a public forum. This stuff is going to happen to an extent but we are starting to resemble the dreaded latte sippers forum. Many people in here put their heart and soul into the club in one way or another - the least we can do is debate in an appropriate manner and not resort to insults.

 

Anyway its not like my post will change anything.

Edited February 28, 2014 by westofcentre

[Flytox]

 

From what I've heard Ffa will own the club for at least this financial year which means they will have responsibility of final profit/loss, so if the club runs at a 500k loss they will have to pay it but it looks like the club will run at a profit and Ffa will pocket the money then they will sell the club.

So yeah Ffa will be fitting the bill for this issue and I won't be surprised to see the fine be smaller than the 5k per flare seeing that they are paying for it. Once new owners take control they will have to pay for future fines that are set by Ffa and they will probably hit us harder than what they would of while they owned us.

 

 

 

This thread should be locked already its not doing any good

 

The FFA aren't the ones imposing the fines, it is the AFC.  The money will go off shore.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Flytox

[Smoggy]

I love the flares. I'm sorry... I just do. I hate the stupid over reactions and irrelevant punishments handed out by the FFA.

 

I would be more than happy to take you out in a boat and strand you on a raft well off shore with a bucket full of the bastards, then you can rip away to your hearts content. No one might see you in time of course, but at least you will have gone out how you would have wanted and we will be one flare fanatic less, win win situation.

Edited February 28, 2014 by WSWBoro

[Flytox]

I would very much doubt that the FFA would play games behind closed doors as it would mean a loss of revenue.

 

But I have been wrong many times before. If it happens maybe it will be forced onto them by the powers that be.

 

And on an another note, some of the attitudes on this forum have been dissapointing. Im not talking about peoples opinions. Everyone is entitled to one, but the respect for one another.

 

We are all Wanderers fans but some of the insults and attacks on other people are out of line.

 

But hey its a public forum. This stuff is going to happen to an extent but we are starting to resemble the dreaded latte sippers forum. Many people in here put their heart and soul into the club in one way or another - the least we can do is debate in an appropriate manner and not resort to insults.

 

Anyway its not like my post will change anything.

The FFA might not like to play Wanderers games behind closed doors but it will not be up to them.  This issue is a breach of the AFC's ACL Regulations so it is the AFC who will decide what penalty is appropriate not the FFA should continued breaches of the Regulations occur.

[wendybr]

I love the flares. I'm sorry... I just do. I hate the stupid over reactions and irrelevant punishments handed out by the FFA.

 

Parramatta Park is enormous. It would be illegal to light flares there too - for those individuals who enjoy the idea of thumbing their noses at authority. A hundred of so of you could surely dance around a sea of flares there after the game could you not??

 

Look ... I'm not (really) being serious, jocosmic. And I admit- I just don't understand  the attraction of flares, but it is obvious that the flare lovers are FLARE LOVERS...are passionate about it.

 

But we are very fortunate to live in a society where the protection of everyone does sometimes restrict the ability of individuals to do what they love.

 

I love swimming without the restriction of swimwear (used to do it often at places where there there was no-one around....a couple of decades ago)  Am I able to strip off in the middle of the flags at Manly beach and skinny dip?  Of course not!  I could argue that it doesn't hurt anyone (....although it might be somewhat visually offensive these days ...lol)

 

But if I chose to insist on doing what I might really want to do, in an inappropriate place,  I'd obviously have to be prepared to accept  the consequences. 

 

Some people might might love a whole range of activities which are restricted in our society for a whole range of reasons.  That's life. There's a lot about the restrictions of modern living that we just have to suck up!    

 

That's it from me!!

 

PS    Please...please...please  no nanny state comments- I've been mentally preparing a tirade in support of the nanny state!!!!!   Might take that over to the 'What Grinds My Gears Thread" 

 

PPS    Oh and please no references to skinny dipping every time I post in the future.     I am fairly up front  about aspects of my life on these forums.... I kinda get surprised when some of you remember things I have said in the past....please!!?? 

[Smoggy]

 

I love the flares. I'm sorry... I just do. I hate the stupid over reactions and irrelevant punishments handed out by the FFA.

 

 

 

I love swimming without the restriction of swimwear (used to do it often at places where there there was no-one around....a couple of decades ago)  Am I able to strip off in the middle of the flags at Manly beach and skinny dip?  Of course not!  I could argue that it doesn't hurt anyone (....although it might be somewhat visually offensive these days ...lol)

 

 

 

 

Well this thread has taken an unexpected twist, personally I want to hear much more about Wendy and her skinny dipping  lol

Edited February 28, 2014 by WSWBoro

[wendybr]

 

 

I love the flares. I'm sorry... I just do. I hate the stupid over reactions and irrelevant punishments handed out by the FFA.

 

I love swimming without the restriction of swimwear (used to do it often at places where there there was no-one around....a couple of decades ago)  Am I able to strip off in the middle of the flags at Manly beach and skinny dip?  Of course not!  I could argue that it doesn't hurt anyone (....although it might be somewhat visually offensive these days ...lol)

 

Well this thread has taken an unexpected twist, personally I want to hear much more about Wendy and her skinny dipping  lol

 

 

SIgh and     . Well actually skinny dipping is one of the great joys of life!! Much better that dancing around with a flare in your hand I'd guess!!

 

But now, back to the debate...

[koji]

Flares hurt the club financially (through fines and potential loss of sponsorship) and it hurts the supporter base as people turn on each other. 

 

The only arguments I'd read in support of flares seem to be that they look cool and create an atmosphere that will help the club grow. Well, now we have it in pretty clear terms from the clubs point of view that they are certainly not helping. And you can see on the forums just how much of a wedge flares drive through supporters. 

 

Whether the punishment is fair is beside the point. If you're a fan you support the club and flares hurt the club. If you call yourself a fan and you damage the club you're no better than the cove

[WhoDoWeSingFor]

OK ... this thread is cool again.

[FlyerOne]

Make up your own minds from the Eastern Stand perspective

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WavUn0isLDs&feature=youtu.be

Yep.

 

Does the RBB get the credit for that goal?

 

 

 

I love the flares. I'm sorry... I just do. I hate the stupid over reactions and irrelevant punishments handed out by the FFA.

 

Parramatta Park is enormous. It would be illegal to light flares there too - for those individuals who enjoy the idea of thumbing their noses at authority. A hundred of so of you could surely dance around a sea of flares there after the game could you not??

 

Look ... I'm not (really) being serious, jocosmic. And I admit- I just don't understand  the attraction of flares, but it is obvious that the flare lovers are FLARE LOVERS...are passionate about it.

 

But we are very fortunate to live in a society where the protection of everyone does sometimes restrict the ability of individuals to do what they love.

 

I love swimming without the restriction of swimwear (used to do it often at places where there there was no-one around....a couple of decades ago)  Am I able to strip off in the middle of the flags at Manly beach and skinny dip?  Of course not!  I could argue that it doesn't hurt anyone (....although it might be somewhat visually offensive these days ...lol)

 

But if I chose to insist on doing what I might really want to do, in an inappropriate place,  I'd obviously have to be prepared to accept  the consequences. 

 

 

 

Yeah, good analogy. Here's another.

 

Dude goes in to IGA and buys some cigarettes. He decides he needs some groceries too and starts shopping, but lights a ciggy  while inside the shop, and as a result gets asked by a shop assistant to put it out as it is

against the law. The dude then goes on a rant about how he is being discriminated against as a smoker, and that it's fine and dandy for the IGA to make money selling ciggies but illegal to smoke in that same store!!

 

The shop assistant says, "We sell condoms too sir."

Edited February 28, 2014 by FlyerOne

[Flytox]

 

Make up your own minds from the Eastern Stand perspective

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WavUn0isLDs&feature=youtu.be

Yep.

 

Does the RBB get the credit for that goal?

 

No, just an assist.  

[WhoDoWeSingFor]

 

I love the flares. I'm sorry... I just do. I hate the stupid over reactions and irrelevant punishments handed out by the FFA.

 

Parramatta Park is enormous. It would be illegal to light flares there too - for those individuals who enjoy the idea of thumbing their noses at authority. A hundred of so of you could surely dance around a sea of flares there after the game could you not??

 

Look ... I'm not (really) being serious, jocosmic. And I admit- I just don't understand  the attraction of flares, but it is obvious that the flare lovers are FLARE LOVERS...are passionate about it.

 

But we are very fortunate to live in a society where the protection of everyone does sometimes restrict the ability of individuals to do what they love.

 

I love swimming without the restriction of swimwear (used to do it often at places where there there was no-one around....a couple of decades ago)  Am I able to strip off in the middle of the flags at Manly beach and skinny dip?  Of course not!  I could argue that it doesn't hurt anyone (....although it might be somewhat visually offensive these days ...lol)

 

But if I chose to insist on doing what I might really want to do, in an inappropriate place,  I'd obviously have to be prepared to accept  the consequences. 

 

Some people might might love a whole range of activities which are restricted in our society for a whole range of reasons.  That's life. There's a lot about the restrictions of modern living that we just have to suck up!    

 

That's it from me!!

 

PS    Please...please...please  no nanny state comments- I've been mentally preparing a tirade in support of the nanny state!!!!!   Might take that over to the 'What Grinds My Gears Thread" 

 

PPS    Oh and please no references to skinny dipping every time I post in the future.     I am fairly up front  about aspects of my life on these forums.... I kinda get surprised when some of you remember things I have said in the past....please!!?? 

 

 

This is another disappointing aspect of the whole debacle ...... that there HAS to be two distinct sides.

 

Mentioned it before, but I grew up with flares at Kogarah and I used to love the bloody things, in fact I still see the attraction.

I do see it, but that would betray the intent of the guys that push a pro vs anti, young vs old, with us or against us mentality.

 

But I see the attraction in lots of things that I might not do myself, plenty of things in fact I wish I could still do that I just simply can't.

Some small things I don't have time for, some dangerous things I now see the danger in and truth be told some illegal things that just aren't worth the risk. Not wanting flares at Wanderland does not equal prude or nanny state.

 

In the last year (yes just the last year) I've gone from loving flares to hating them (not hating them per se but in the context of the Wanderers).

 

I've learnt that they can harm people with asthma and hey I've got a kid with asthma that I'd like to bring one day. I've seen a little kid be overcome and it was a trip. Truly, if you saw what I saw you would see the risk and appreciate the danger. But I understand that people need to see things for themselves, sad but true, lets wait till there are three accidents to put lights in mentality, same thing here.

 

My wife's cousin now bares a juicy scar from the grand final. Now she doesn't give a toss, she is happy with it and remains in the RBB. BUT the point is obvious ................. surely.

 

The main thing though is I love this club, I love this sport, FMD I love this forum and the community we have here.

 

THIS **** ................ is ruining that.

 

It DOESN'T matter whether you like flares, whether you think we are over policed in Australia, whether you hate flares, whether you are a Narc that likes laws, all laws, can't get enough laws ( God Forbid ). The ONLY thing that matters is that it hurts this club and by extension all of us.

 

Yes, I also get the die on your feet rather than live on your knee argument. I do get it.

BUT one must accept to pick their battles.

 

We are all football fans ................ in Australia.

Does that NOT say enough ?

 

Maybe if people read and listened to everyone's points there would be the respect for each other some have alluded to.

Instead people look at the poster and pretty much skip the post and let loose.

Any wonder then, rational debate has been replaced with raw emotion.

[1988banana]

Boring!!!!! Ffa love stories

[DamnedUnited]

Sanctioning us and no-one else?

 

Trying to provide a cleaner image to potential buyers, nothing more.

 

People against flares?

 

Y'all don't know how to party.

 

Woooooooooooooooooooo

 

Lets throw bacon and ham in the air instead, show support to our new overlords.

 

 

 

One thing we have to be careful with is saying that they didn't do their job keeping the flares out. I don't know what the answer is but I don't want a situation where security is way over the top and everyone needs a rectal exam just to go to the football.

You haven't seen security post the Boston marathon in the US, they get people in fast but no bags, bottles of water, of food items of any kind, plus you have to empty pockets and take belts off etc, then get scanned..just like the airport. Its what they need to do, we dont want to go down that path, but we are forcing them to consider it I guess.

 

 

That was a terrorist attack to generate mass fear through the loss of life.

 

Wednesday night was just smoke and light to make the terrace "pretty". 

 

Let's put things in perspective. Comparing pyro to terrorism just validates the argument used by the likes of Rebecca Wilson and dmixtaaa. 

 

Where there is smoke there is fire and where there is a dog there is normally a kennel. Self-policing on behalf of the FFA is cheap labour and echoing corporate moral outrage whilst wearing red and black attire - utterly undignified. Yes 2 Rodz7 & Zip. 

[WhoDoWeSingFor]

Boring!!!!! Ffa love stories

 

No offence man.

 

But you and people like you ARE the problem.

 

No way you even read that before responding, not even for a genius like yourself.

 

Yep that's personal isn't it.

 

Do you love it ?

 

Is that what you want ?

 

Way to contribute as always.

You're probably a decent bloke in real life and we would have no dramas talking to each other at Wanderland, maybe we have. But c'mom man, at least reply with some thought. You are doing yourself no favours with thoughtless one liners. It adds nothing man.

 

 

You see West Of Centre ........ THIS is why the respect is gone.

THIS, right here.

You write a legitimate post and get this crap in response.

Edited February 28, 2014 by WhoDoWeSingFor

[GM22]

It's pleasing to see that most fans in this forum appear to be anti-flare. I would love WSW fans to continue to be known, quite rightly, as the most passionate fans in the game, rather than become known as the idiot fans that steer families and others away from the game.

 

And yes, I agree that $40k would be a helluva lot better spent on an up and coming player.

[wendybr]

 

 

I love the flares. I'm sorry... I just do. I hate the stupid over reactions and irrelevant punishments handed out by the FFA.

 

Parramatta Park is enormous. It would be illegal to light flares there too - for those individuals who enjoy the idea of thumbing their noses at authority. A hundred of so of you could surely dance around a sea of flares there after the game could you not??

 

Look ... I'm not (really) being serious, jocosmic. And I admit- I just don't understand  the attraction of flares, but it is obvious that the flare lovers are FLARE LOVERS...are passionate about it.

 

But we are very fortunate to live in a society where the protection of everyone does sometimes restrict the ability of individuals to do what they love.

 

I love swimming without the restriction of swimwear (used to do it often at places where there there was no-one around....a couple of decades ago)  Am I able to strip off in the middle of the flags at Manly beach and skinny dip?  Of course not!  I could argue that it doesn't hurt anyone (....although it might be somewhat visually offensive these days ...lol)

 

But if I chose to insist on doing what I might really want to do, in an inappropriate place,  I'd obviously have to be prepared to accept  the consequences. 

 

Some people might might love a whole range of activities which are restricted in our society for a whole range of reasons.  That's life. There's a lot about the restrictions of modern living that we just have to suck up!    

 

That's it from me!!

 

PS    Please...please...please  no nanny state comments- I've been mentally preparing a tirade in support of the nanny state!!!!!   Might take that over to the 'What Grinds My Gears Thread" 

 

PPS    Oh and please no references to skinny dipping every time I post in the future.     I am fairly up front  about aspects of my life on these forums.... I kinda get surprised when some of you remember things I have said in the past....please!!?? 

 

 

This is another disappointing aspect of the whole debacle ...... that there HAS to be two distinct sides.

 

Mentioned it before, but I grew up with flares at Kogarah and I used to love the bloody things, in fact I still see the attraction.

I do see it, but that would betray the intent of the guys that push a pro vs anti, young vs old, with us or against us mentality.

 

But I see the attraction in lots of things that I might not do myself, plenty of things in fact I wish I could still do that I just simply can't.

Some small things I don't have time for, some dangerous things I now see the danger in and truth be told some illegal things that just aren't worth the risk. Not wanting flares at Wanderland does not equal prude or nanny state.

 

In the last year (yes just the last year) I've gone from loving flares to hating them (not hating them per se but in the context of the Wanderers).

 

I've learnt that they can harm people with asthma and hey I've got a kid with asthma that I'd like to bring one day. I've seen a little kid be overcome and it was a trip. Truly, if you saw what I saw you would see the risk and appreciate the danger. But I understand that people need to see things for themselves, sad but true, lets wait till there are three accidents to put lights in mentality, same thing here.

 

My wife's cousin now bares a juicy scar from the grand final. Now she doesn't give a toss, she is happy with it and remains in the RBB. BUT the point is obvious ................. surely.

 

The main thing though is I love this club, I love this sport, FMD I love this forum and the community we have here.

 

THIS **** ................ is ruining that.

 

It DOESN'T matter whether you like flares, whether you think we are over policed in Australia, whether you hate flares, whether you are a Narc that likes laws, all laws, can't get enough laws ( God Forbid ). The ONLY thing that matters is that it hurts this club and by extension all of us.

 

Yes, I also get the die on your feet rather than live on your knee argument. I do get it.

BUT one must accept to pick their battles.

 

We are all football fans ................ in Australia.

Does that NOT say enough ?

 

Maybe if people read and listened to everyone's points there would be the respect for each other some have alluded to.

Instead people look at the poster and pretty much skip the post and let loose.

Any wonder then, rational debate has been replaced with raw emotion.

 

 

Fantastic post..one of a number of yours on this subject  over the past year!  And where someone like me has no credibility in the eyes of the flare lovers...you should have! 

 

I remember your posts about the child you saw have an asthma attack. Any person with respect for the welfare of other people should take on board the points you've made.

 

I hope I'm wrong...but I brace myself for a cynical and sarcastic repeat of "Won't someone remember the children" sentiment   

 

EDIT    Haha...I've just read what followed your post.     

[WhoDoWeSingFor]

Thanks Wendy.

 

The real worry as you would know is that the guys on this forum pleading the case for stopping the flares are not the enemy of the guys that want flares at Wanderland.

 

The real enemy is out there, but its not us.

 

What happens when people like us stop trying ?

[wendybr]

It's pleasing to see that most fans in this forum appear to be anti-flare. I would love WSW fans to continue to be known, quite rightly, as the most passionate fans in the game, rather than become known as the idiot fans that steer families and others away from the game.

 

And yes, I agree that $40k would be a helluva lot better spent on an up and coming player.

 

Welcome to the forums!!  We're in one of the more "robust" phases of debate at the moment.  This argument has raged, fiercely, on and off, throughout last season.

[lloydy136]

Two incidents....

 

A - a fan racially abuses a player.

B - a fan rips a flare.

 

In both cases the clubs are repeat offenders. Both acts are illegal and generally frowned on by the broader community (if not by some within the respective fanbases).

 

Act A was punished with an ejection.

Act B was punished (or will be) with a police investigation, likely charges, bans and loss of privileges for the broader fanbase.

 

What's the difference? Media crisis creation. A barely registered in the media and was treated as the inappropriate behaviour of a few whereas B is part of a broader attack on football fans. The media is seeking to strip away the uniqueness of football support by creating a crisis and compelling various authorities to act and limit football support. Its flares now but how long before the media get all in a lather about broken seats and create a crisis that results in seccos being instructed to make people sit down during the game as happens in the uk?

 

We are doing our part too here by squabbling and name calling as if we had all magically moved 30km east. Disappointing.

 

This is not me endorsing or condemning the use of flares but it is my opinion that there are bigger forces at play here than 'just a few selfish idiots'.

 

Anyone who thinks that if we never ripped another flare that the media attacks and restrictions on wsw fans would stop is not living in the real world imo.

[wendybr]

Thanks Wendy.

 

The real worry as you would know is that the guys on this forum pleading the case for stopping the flares are not the enemy of the guys that want flares at Wanderland.

 

The real enemy is out there, but its not us.

 

What happens when people like us stop trying ?

 

Good question...and a small army of really good people seem to have been too frustrated and retreated from the battle over the past 12 months.  If any of them are still around, it'd be nice to hear from them again.

 

Sadly I honestly cannot see the attitudes of some of the most determined of the flare lovers changing. I think the only thing that will do that is to have them identified and removed.  How /when that happens....I don't know.

 

But what our voices do, I guess, is to show people like GM22 (who has just posted for the first time)  that SO MANY of us have either always rejected the use of flares, or have now come to the conclusion that they have to go.

 

Please keep going....as I said... you have a chance to develop the credibility on this issue  that I don't.  Cheers!! 

[WhoDoWeSingFor]

Two incidents....

 

A - a fan racially abuses a player.

B - a fan rips a flare.

 

In both cases the clubs are repeat offenders. Both acts are illegal and generally frowned on by the broader community (if not by some within the respective fanbases).

 

Act A was punished with an ejection.

Act B was punished (or will be) with a police investigation, likely charges, bans and loss of privileges for the broader fanbase.

 

What's the difference? Media crisis creation. A barely registered in the media and was treated as the inappropriate behaviour of a few whereas B is part of a broader attack on football fans. The media is seeking to strip away the uniqueness of football support by creating a crisis and compelling various authorities to act and limit football support. Its flares now but how long before the media get all in a lather about broken seats and create a crisis that results in seccos being instructed to make people sit down during the game as happens in the uk?

 

We are doing our part too here by squabbling and name calling as if we had all magically moved 30km east. Disappointing.

 

This is not me endorsing or condemning the use of flares but it is my opinion that there are bigger forces at play here than 'just a few selfish idiots'.

 

Anyone who thinks that if we never ripped another flare that the media attacks and restrictions on wsw fans would stop is not living in the real world imo.

 

I do agree mate.

 

Especially the last two lines.

 

I actually think though, many of us agree with those last two lines, I just happen to also think the flares are a point of difference that is used against us. We know they will use flares as an excuse for their agenda, so what you gonna do, rip another one

 

Problem is mate, you have tried to make some legitimate points while sitting on the fence about the actual flares.

 

That apparently won't do ....... you have to be pro or anti, haven't you heard ? 

 

Good to see you again some time soon mate ........ maybe sans Roxy next time.

[wendybr]

Two incidents....

 

A - a fan racially abuses a player.

B - a fan rips a flare.

 

In both cases the clubs are repeat offenders. Both acts are illegal and generally frowned on by the broader community (if not by some within the respective fanbases).

 

Act A was punished with an ejection.

Act B was punished (or will be) with a police investigation, likely charges, bans and loss of privileges for the broader fanbase.

 

What's the difference? Media crisis creation. A barely registered in the media and was treated as the inappropriate behaviour of a few whereas B is part of a broader attack on football fans. The media is seeking to strip away the uniqueness of football support by creating a crisis and compelling various authorities to act and limit football support. Its flares now but how long before the media get all in a lather about broken seats and create a crisis that results in seccos being instructed to make people sit down during the game as happens in the uk?

 

We are doing our part too here by squabbling and name calling as if we had all magically moved 30km east. Disappointing.

 

This is not me endorsing or condemning the use of flares but it is my opinion that there are bigger forces at play here than 'just a few selfish idiots'.

 

Anyone who thinks that if we never ripped another flare that the media attacks and restrictions on wsw fans would stop is not living in the real world imo.

 

Sorry Lloydy...I don't buy that.  Both are socially unacceptable, dangerous and harmful to others.  Read WDWSF's post. This is what it's about.

[Lookers]

 

 

 

I guess also the reason FFA went hard on us is since we are still technically owned I guess by the FFA, its their $30,000 in fine money they have to fork out.

The fines wouldn't be paid by the FFA directly, wouldn't the money would come from the club's books? I thought although the FFA owns WSW, they are two separate entities. Like if I owned the club I wouldn't be pulling the money out of my back pocket, it would come from the club's revenues, yeah?

From what I've heard Ffa will own the club for at least this financial year which means they will have responsibility of final profit/loss, so if the club runs at a 500k loss they will have to pay it but it looks like the club will run at a profit and Ffa will pocket the money then they will sell the club.

So yeah Ffa will be fitting the bill for this issue and I won't be surprised to see the fine be smaller than the 5k per flare seeing that they are paying for it. Once new owners take control they will have to pay for future fines that are set by Ffa and they will probably hit us harder than what they would of while they owned us.

Word in the press was that the club was meant to be sold mid Feb so I can't see the FFA holding on to them till June 30! Assume the i's are being dotted and the t's crossed is what is holding up the sale.

 

Technically they could just sell the club at a 30-50k discount covering the cost of the fines seeing as the club has been pretty much sold already (11.950 - 11.970). Or, the club will just run a smaller profit at the end of the year without the price of the club changing (ie 12 instead of 11.965 mill)

 

The other thing you have to take into account is that WSW are just expected to break even so even if they made a profit it was only going to be minor anyway. There would be no point in holding on for the profit at the end of the year, just add it to the sale price and get rid of it.

 

Another view on the sale of the club is that the longer the FFA hold on to WSW the higher the sale price will rise. One thing driving this is the further revenue raised by adding the extra seating to parra stadium and the increase in the brand value by participating in Asia plus any success we have domestically this season. With all the conflict of interest issues arising I can see why they would want to sell it but I can also see that by holding on to wsw and selling minus the bad seeds could also be at the back of their mind too.

So if/when we get sold to a few businessmen and if/when we get fined again, they would be going splitsville on the bill? Surely not.

Or would it be indirect in the sense that they won't get as much return from their investment as they would have?

 

At the end of the day, we can only hope that the new owners appreciate the club, the fans and the sport and we don't end up in a similar situation to the NTC!

[lloydy136]

 

Two incidents....

A - a fan racially abuses a player.

B - a fan rips a flare.

In both cases the clubs are repeat offenders. Both acts are illegal and generally frowned on by the broader community (if not by some within the respective fanbases).

Act A was punished with an ejection.

Act B was punished (or will be) with a police investigation, likely charges, bans and loss of privileges for the broader fanbase.

What's the difference? Media crisis creation. A barely registered in the media and was treated as the inappropriate behaviour of a few whereas B is part of a broader attack on football fans. The media is seeking to strip away the uniqueness of football support by creating a crisis and compelling various authorities to act and limit football support. Its flares now but how long before the media get all in a lather about broken seats and create a crisis that results in seccos being instructed to make people sit down during the game as happens in the uk?

We are doing our part too here by squabbling and name calling as if we had all magically moved 30km east. Disappointing.

This is not me endorsing or condemning the use of flares but it is my opinion that there are bigger forces at play here than 'just a few selfish idiots'.

Anyone who thinks that if we never ripped another flare that the media attacks and restrictions on wsw fans would stop is not living in the real world imo.

 

Sorry Lloydy...I don't buy that. Both are socially unacceptable, dangerous and harmful to others. Read WDWSF's post. This is what it's about.

Not sure which part you are not happy with wendy? My post is not an endorsement of flares but an observation of the differing response by the media and authorities.