#NoToANZ Poll

Jowel · October 30, 2013

Mack you should add another question:

"If the majority of Wanderers members were consulted on and supported a proposal to move the Sydney Derby to ANZ stadium, should the game be moved?"

Definitely not a swipe at your specific post but, they've all had their opportunity to speak up at every fan forum.

The decision was no to ANZ.

No worries. I'm just trying to keep things a bit balanced here.

And FYI I spoke from the audience at one of the fan forums and said we must play all games at Parramatta. That was over a year ago now - how things have changed with our club since then.

**mack** · October 30, 2013

Congratulations Mack! You have just elevated yourself to poster boy status in NRL and AFL offices! They will be laughing with glee and relief right now. Not even a week after a sell out crowd of 40,000+ at Allianz and media support and statements of our emergence of the sort that our game has never received before, you and a few others want to see us permanently restrained within our shoebox.

To draw an analogy, it is like marrying the fashion equivalent of Imelda Marcos, then expecting her to fit all her shoes and outfits in your bachelor cupboard, when she wants and needs a large walk-in robe. Last weekend was supposed to be a turning point, but those with a blanket 'No to ANZ' a trying to turn back the clock and pretend that the weekend never existed.

Our club is the single greatest weapon that FFA have in elevating and promoting the game we purport to love. Momentum is a powerful tool in marketing and just as it is said that a week is a long time in politics, it can also be in public perception and enthusiasm. I firmly believe that the Jan 11 2014 home game should have been shifted to ANZ, giving us every chance to shatter the A-League all-time attendance record of 55,000 (and adding to our comparatively small home average attendance). With some extra promotion, I am sure we would have done this. Are the RBB really such a bunch of pussies that they would run from the challenge of ANZ? If anyone can provide atmosphere in that venue we can!

We have sold out every home game so far and look like doing so for the rest of the season at Parra/Pirtek. No business in the world worth its salt would not try to take advantage of significant excess demand for (at least one of) their products. What is offered in terms of development of Parra/Pirtek is nice, but it is also small and glacial in its application. This club and its support is growing far quicker - the game needs this pace to be maintained.

Ideally, I think many people would love to see a Lowy Arena, but that is not for us to decide or dictate. If organisations do not grow and evolve they run the risk of stagnating and eventually decaying. I think our home derby at ANZ is a very reasonable and appropriate move. Then again, if we could sell out ANZ every home game, would you be against that too?

We are currently owned by the FFA (and indirectly the Football Family) and owe it to those who dedicate many hours each week for the love of our game, right around the country, not to put a lid on their dreams and the game's growth prospects.

#NoToANZ.

People who wanted the club to play some games at ANZ have had multiple opportunities to say so. Even the biggest polls on this subject still get 75 to 80% in favour of not playing any regular season matches.

Why do I need to add another option for "if consulted blah blah blah play at ANZ" when the current first question "Do you want all regular season matches at Parramatta" is at 90% with 72 votes in less than a day!

ydoow · October 30, 2013

Playing one/two games a season at ANZ will not be a travesty imo... but I still much prefer parra. If we can get 60k+ people I wouldn't be opposed to having a game or two at ANZ but I think 20k roaring fans >>> 40k people in a half empty stadium.

Chaopescado · October 30, 2013

All this talk of moving the game to ANZ to show the other codes we mean business, is absolute crap IMO.

I think refusing to move games to ANZ for sake of a bigger gate and more $$$ is a bigger statement.

Football is a big enough game not to bullied by the likes of ANZ and their $$$. Look what has happened to all the suburban grounds in the NRL, Belmore, Leichardt, Redfern Oval, etc. they started off by moving a game or two to ANZ and now no longer host any games.

Football needs to make a statement. We are the peoples game.

The Wanderers need to make a statement. We are a community team, built on our fans ideals, we exist to represent Western Sydney and not to make a quick buck! Our home is Wanderland and we will not be moved!

#NotoANZ

Edited October 30, 2013 by Chaopescado

Zelinsky · October 30, 2013

A capacity of initially 24000 and eventually 32000 at Parra or elsewhere will be enough for all matches apart from the derby. It doesn't make sense to me to have the derby in Parramatta and effectively exclude tens of thousands of spectators from the match. At the same time, it doesn't make sense to play Wellington and Heart at ANZ. It would feel like a graveyard.

1860 Munich used to play in an old substandard ground like Parra which had a capacity of around 30k. It was enough for while they were in BL2, but the derbys were always played in Bayern's home ground at the time, the Olympic Stadium, in front of 70k. The same will happen here in Sydney, no doubt.

I don't buy into this "the-atmosphere-at-ANZ-is-shite" mindset. The few thousand Iraqis made a heck of a racous at the WC qualifier back in June. Put the 30k WSW supporters who went to the GF, add the several thousand who didn't get tickets, and add few thousand who want to join but can't because they can't find a seat to sit on. I can't see what the problem is with that prospect.

Skull · October 30, 2013

#notoANZ

But I had to lol, I dont think I've ever seen a survey with such heavily leading questions.

People do understand that at this point we are still owned by the FFA right? So just like any other major share holder in a Business, of course they are going to have a f*cking say in our running, let's not kid ourselves.

Once we're free of their hold then of course we can tell them to piss off.

On another note, out of curiosity, if moving one derby game a year was the difference between the club making a profit and being viable vs a loss and struggling financially, would everyone still be so outraged at moving a single game?

#notoANZ

Hughesy · October 30, 2013

I don't care if people miss out on seeing the derby, they should either buy a membership or get in early for tickets. Most of these people who are 'missing out' are also the ones who go missing when results arent going so well. Life's tough, sometimes you miss out on things. All this over one game that happened less than a week ago. Ffs have some patience and wait until we get an upgrade, people expect everything right now

mltezr · October 30, 2013

all this talk about moving the game to ANZ frustrates me and makes me wish i punched de bohun at the forum.

from the very first forum before the club was formed we fought for no to anz. some people fought hard for this, and the clear majority agreed with this.

to gormans credit he has always said he wont move it.

so ***** wake the hell up FFA. no to anz. if esfc want to move it there, then they can. no to us moving our games there.

not even going to talk how the anz put all these restrictions on active support during that football fan fest or whatever it was called.

Zelinsky · October 30, 2013

The match against Wellington was a sell out, the match against Heart is heading the same way (Ticketek just pushed the sale day for the remaining tickets to Tue 19 Nov 2013 9:00AM). If the games against the - on paper - two least attractive teams for us in the league turn into block busters, then only members with an allocated seat can look forward to matches at Parra. For the rest there is Foxtel, and away matches.

The WSW and their current owners are dealing with a situation where thousands of current members of - and any future additions to - the fan base won't be able to see the Wanderes at Parra. It is preventing future growth, and it is preventing a big chunk of the WSW community from joining in and keeping engaged. It is an unacceptable situation. If I have to make a decision if I am going to travel every now and then to Perth, Adelaide, Melbourne, Brisbane or Homebush to see the WSW play, then I know what my pick will be.

**mack** · October 30, 2013

Move derbies to anz and govt will refuse upgrades and tell us to play all games at anz. It will kill our memberehip culture.

Smoggy · October 30, 2013

Move derbies to anz and govt will refuse upgrades and tell us to play all games at anz. It will kill our memberehip culture.

I see lots of gov red tape to get through regards the future Parra upgrade, could be 5 years or more in the making.

Membership culture is only good if you can keep on growing it, doesn't work if it is static / not open to new people.

No easy solution. No one wants ANZ and the builders aren't waiting to move in on Parra Stadium and probably won't until the ownership issue is sorted out.

Edited October 30, 2013 by WSWBoro

HungHuynh · October 30, 2013

We all know how our government wants the game to be played out. They already looking at Melbourne centric styled stadia. To play every game in their 2 large stadium, letting boutique suburban stadium to die out.

Zelinsky · October 30, 2013

I don't care if people miss out on seeing the derby, they should either buy a membership or get in early for tickets. Most of these people who are 'missing out' are also the ones who go missing when results arent going so well. Life's tough, sometimes you miss out on things. All this over one game that happened less than a week ago. Ffs have some patience and wait until we get an upgrade, people expect everything right now

Sorry mate, you may not care, but I do. I don't think you fully appreciate the situation here. Although I wasn't a member last year, I went to most of their home games, and to their three away games in NSW, so I am far from being a so called band wagon supporter. I am now a non-seat holding member, and I just failed to get a ticket for the Heart game, so this is not about people missing just the derby any longer. This is about serious supporters missing out, with no relief in sight.

When the WSW play in Parra, Moore Park, and Gosford there aren't enough seats for bums already. We might even see a sell out in Newcastle soon if that's the only chance for WSW-starved supporters to see their club play in the region. I am planning to travelling up there twice this year, that's how keen I am. Next season will be an additional post-WC push for tickets, and the AC will increase the demand even further.

A buy back scheme for member tickets to prevent empty seats on match day and increasing the capacity of Parra Stadium are no more than a patch. The HAL is a business, and the huge potential for growth is now emerging. It would be naive to think that HAL and FFA will not react to an apparent mismatch of demand and supply in an appropriate manner. After all, fans who can't get in through the door are customers lost, sources of income missed.

withnail · October 30, 2013

OK let's take this apart piece by piece.

Congratulations Mack! You have just elevated yourself to poster boy status in NRL and AFL offices! They will be laughing with glee and relief right now. Not even a week after a sell out crowd of 40,000+ at Allianz and media support and statements of our emergence of the sort that our game has never received before, you and a few others want to see us permanently restrained within our shoebox.

Who cares about the egg chasing codes? Just because it was a sell out last week doesn't really mean much, like it has already been mentioned we're going through a purple patch, we're still a novelty club, we're the current league champions and we're still unbeaten. Just wait till we see some bad results the day trippers and big game charlie's will soon start dropping off, then what? We're not restrained within our shoebox, tickets for home games are still available as pay on the gate.

Our club is the single greatest weapon that FFA have in elevating and promoting the game we purport to love. Momentum is a powerful tool in marketing and just as it is said that a week is a long time in politics, it can also be in public perception and enthusiasm. I firmly believe that the Jan 11 2014 home game should have been shifted to ANZ, giving us every chance to shatter the A-League all-time attendance record of 55,000 (and adding to our comparatively small home average attendance). With some extra promotion, I am sure we would have done this.

Why? At all the fan forums the consensus has been to have the games at Parramatta. I'm not really bothered by attendance records, I'm more bothered that the club that actually listens to it's supporter base.

Are the RBB really such a bunch of pussies that they would run from the challenge of ANZ? If anyone can provide atmosphere in that venue we can!

This is crass sexist macho posturing, I expect better form Wanderers supporters to be honest.

We have sold out every home game so far and look like doing so for the rest of the season at Parra/Pirtek.

We've played ONE game at our ground this season and it wasn't a sell out, tickets were available on the day.

No business in the world worth its salt would not try to take advantage of significant excess demand for (at least one of) their products.

I don't want Football to be viewed as a business and football supporters to be treated like customers (#againstmodernfootball), I've been in that situation, it leads to price hikes and loyal supporters getting fleeced at every opportunity. Watch as more and more tickets etc start going to corporate execs and partners 'the Wanderers family'

What is offered in terms of development of Parra/Pirtek is nice, but it is also small and glacial in its application. This club and its support is growing far quicker - the game needs this pace to be maintained.

OK so far the only tickets that have been a struggle for some people was the grand final. Any member who wanted a ticket got one, tickets for the semi were available on general sale, you can currently buy a ticket to any of our home games.

Ideally, I think many people would love to see a Lowy Arena, but that is not for us to decide or dictate. If organisations do not grow and evolve they run the risk of stagnating and eventually decaying. I think our home derby at ANZ is a very reasonable and appropriate move. Then again, if we could sell out ANZ every home game, would you be against that too?

I don't want to see Frank Lowy involved in the game to be honest, I don't see football as a billionaires play thing and a vehicle so that he can schmooze and grease his way up the FIFA ladder.

We are currently owned by the FFA (and indirectly the Football Family) and owe it to those who dedicate many hours each week for the love of our game, right around the country, not to put a lid on their dreams and the game's growth prospects.

No the club owe it's success to it's supporters who turn up week in and week out and also take sizeable away followings around Australia, often at personal expense. The club should be held accountable to the promises it made during the fan forums that games were to be held at Parra.

No supporters, no club.

Hughesy · October 31, 2013

I don't care if people miss out on seeing the derby, they should either buy a membership or get in early for tickets. Most of these people who are 'missing out' are also the ones who go missing when results arent going so well. Life's tough, sometimes you miss out on things. All this over one game that happened less than a week ago. Ffs have some patience and wait until we get an upgrade, people expect everything right now

Sorry mate, you may not care, but I do. I don't think you fully appreciate the situation here. Although I wasn't a member last year, I went to most of their home games, and to their three away games in NSW, so I am far from being a so called band wagon supporter. I am now a non-seat holding member, and I just failed to get a ticket for the Heart game, so this is not about people missing just the derby any longer. This is about serious supporters missing out, with no relief in sight.

When the WSW play in Parra, Moore Park, and Gosford there aren't enough seats for bums already. We might even see a sell out in Newcastle soon if that's the only chance for WSW-starved supporters to see their club play in the region. I am planning to travelling up there twice this year, that's how keen I am. Next season will be an additional post-WC push for tickets, and the AC will increase the demand even further.

A buy back scheme for member tickets to prevent empty seats on match day and increasing the capacity of Parra Stadium are no more than a patch. The HAL is a business, and the huge potential for growth is now emerging. It would be naive to think that HAL and FFA will not react to an apparent mismatch of demand and supply in an appropriate manner. After all, fans who can't get in through the door are customers lost, sources of income missed.

I respect that but I still think everyone needs to take a deep breath and relax. If there is ever a home game that you can't get tickets for PM me, you're welcome to have either myself or my mates passes if one of us can't make it

**mack** · October 31, 2013

You know whats worse than static membership culture? Losing members because you play at anz and people no longer need membership for big games.

Skull · October 31, 2013

You know whats worse than static membership culture? Losing members because you play at anz and people no longer need membership for big games.

Devils advocate, the flip side is 'event seekers' buy memberships just so they can go to big games, leaving empty seats at a 'sold out' Parra for other games, and geniune supporters like FCB miss out...

Still #notoANZ

Edited October 31, 2013 by Skull

marron · October 31, 2013

You know whats worse than static membership culture? Losing members because you play at anz and people no longer need membership for big games.
Devils advocate, the flip side is 'event seekers' buy memberships just so they can go to big games, leaving empty seats at a 'sold out' Parra for other games, and geniune supporters like FCB miss out...

Still #notoANZ

buyback scheme should fix this.... if and when it's implemented.

Skull · October 31, 2013

You know whats worse than static membership culture? Losing members because you play at anz and people no longer need membership for big games.
Devils advocate, the flip side is 'event seekers' buy memberships just so they can go to big games, leaving empty seats at a 'sold out' Parra for other games, and geniune supporters like FCB miss out...

Still #notoANZ

buyback scheme should fix this.... if and when it's implemented.

Buy back will only work to a certain extent, people are lazy and if the process is a hassle people wont go to the through the trouble for the below cost amount the club will buy the tickets back for.

I'd imagine people who buy memberships just for the big games are similar to people who get gym membership and stop going onve the novelty wears off, but continue paying out the contract regardless.

In saying that, ANZ shouldn't be considered until we go through a a solid rough patch, if the demand is still there, then discuss it, but until then I say no

Flytox · October 31, 2013

The NSW Government would like nothing better than for us to shift a game to ANZ Stadium because it fits in with their published strategy that getting more events at the Tier 1 stadia is their top priority.

2.5 Stadia Strategy Design Principles

2 Utilisation: greater use of Tier 1 stadia will be prioritised.

http://www.communities.nsw.gov.au/assets/pubs/corporate/NSW_stadia_strategy_2012.pdf

In support of prioritising the utilisation of Tier 1 stadia the strategy includes two case studies showing that clubs permanently moving to Tier 1 stadia resulted in attendance growth. These clubs being Souths and Canterbury.

The strategy does include the need for a Tier 2 stadium in Western Sydney but only commits to further investigation.

My fear, based on more than a decade of my previous career being involved in the scoping and delivery of major capital works in a sector of the NSW government, is that the politicians will see the moving of our home games to ANZ Stadium as a more natural outcome of our growth than upgrading Pirtek Stadium and seize on the opportunity to defer stadia capital expenditure until another entity in Western Sydney grows to the point where a larger stadium is required. I personally don't think we should agree to opening the door for the politicians to reach this conclusion until we have at least secured funding for the next stage of upgrading to 28k.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Flytox

withnail · October 31, 2013

I'd love to know the percentage of people who buy season tickets and don't show up. If I couldn't make it I'd give it to a mate to use for a freebie.

FairPlay · October 31, 2013

#YesToAnzForTheDerbyOnceDemandDictatesItWillAttract50kPlusAndParraStadCapacityIsStill20k!

stavup · October 31, 2013

These ESFC fans think we should move to ANZ...

**mack** · October 31, 2013

You know whats worse than static membership culture? Losing members because you play at anz and people no longer need membership for big games.
Devils advocate, the flip side is 'event seekers' buy memberships just so they can go to big games, leaving empty seats at a 'sold out' Parra for other games, and geniune supporters like FCB miss out...
Still #notoANZ

ppl had a year and a half to buy a membership...

stavup · October 31, 2013

My heart is at Parramatta now..not sure if I wanted our home there in the beginning..but now its WSW Wanderland..15 years down the track we can move to our own stadium built exclusively for football..

HungHuynh · October 31, 2013

Somewhere that have direct mass transit to the new airport would be great.

**Carns** · October 31, 2013

Why do I need to add another option for "if consulted blah blah blah play at ANZ" when the current first question "Do you want all regular season matches at Parramatta" is at 90% with 72 votes in less than a day!

72/16000 is still only 0.45% of the membership base. I'm not suggesting that the majority wouldn't agree with the poll, but it has about us much relevance as a poll you see at the end of an online news article. Statistically insignificant (when referring to the entire membership base). Granted, it is a reflection on what people on this forum may think, but that may also be skewed because people who post here may have more emotionally invested in this than other members.

Not to mention the majority, if not all the poll questions, are loaded and bias.

redandblack · October 31, 2013

Wow, so much fail on this thread...

Echidna, you're arguments are so ridiculous that I can't even break them down to show you how naive you are.

People had enough of a chance to attend the fan forums, or even communicate their preference via other means if they wanted their opinions to matter. Most chose not to.

ANZ is the result of a selfish desicion to utilise a series of infrastructure that was created for the purpose of the Olympic games 13 years ago.

Now that they have it, they needed to ensure their money didn't go to waste.

It doesn't represent anything, and it's soulless. Will our supporters be able to create some atmosphere in there for once? ...who knows. We don't know for certain that we will be filling it, or even close to filling it.

Then you need to ask yourself who are we moving a game for? for future members? If we beleive we can capture new members, then build Parra. End of!

If you want to have it at ANZ because that's where the big event goers come out and go into hiding every other day, then you should realise that you're nothing but a cheap prostitute willing to part with your integrity and sell out for a instant gratification. Ironically you can go Fuk yourself!

westofcentre · October 31, 2013

Mack makes a good point - if ANZ diminishes our ability to to negotiate Parra then its a big problem. As I have stated before, one derby game at ANZ I can live with because there will be flow on benefits (extra $$$ for our club, exposure, good for club and league), however if this comes at the expense of a Parra upgrade then I wont support it.

Parra needs to be our priority.

Edited October 31, 2013 by westofcentre

JayArgosy · October 31, 2013

Wow, so much fail on this thread...

Echidna, you're arguments are so ridiculous that I can't even break them down to show you how naive you are.

People had enough of a chance to attend the fan forums, or even communicate their preference via other means if they wanted their opinions to matter. Most chose not to.

ANZ is the result of a selfish desicion to utilise a series of infrastructure that was created for the purpose of the Olympic games 13 years ago.

Now that they have it, they needed to ensure their money didn't go to waste.

It doesn't represent anything, and it's soulless. Will our supporters be able to create some atmosphere in there for once? ...who knows. We don't know for certain that we will be filling it, or even close to filling it.

Then you need to ask yourself who are we moving a game for? for future members? If we beleive we can capture new members, then build Parra. End of!

If you want to have it at ANZ because that's where the big event goers come out and go into hiding every other day, then you should realise that you're nothing but a cheap prostitute willing to part with your integrity and sell out for a instant gratification. Ironically you can go Fuk yourself!

Hammer,nail,head ...... Bang

If you're a die hard fan you would've made an effort to have seat at Wanderland ... This is directed to everyone

If you missed out then go on the waiting list and wait for people not renewing/bans/ etc

#NoToANZ Poll

Questions about ANZ/Parramatta/FFA. 172 members have voted

1. Do you want to play all regular season matches at Parramatta?

2. Would you feel betrayed, shocked or hurt if the club moved regular season games to ANZ against the express wishes of the community that has built the club?

3. Should the FFA & Damien de Bohun stop interfering with the running of the club, leaving it to the likes of Lyall Gorman?

4. Do you feel the club would be betraying it's community ideals to move regular season games to ANZ?

5. If the club/FFA ignores community wishes with matches at ANZ, do you feel that it could lead to the club ignoring other important community lead aspects of the Wanderers?

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Questions about ANZ/Parramatta/FFA.
172 members have voted