FFA Attempting To Destroy Active Support

[stavup]

 

Just over 12 hours since this issue reared its ugly head and I still feel like what should be a joyous time for all of us has been sullied, cheapened, soured. I've tried to articulate my thoughts in more detail on my blog but I suspect no matter the quantity or quality of our words or our deeds we are all being cheated out of exulting in our sport and our club by the actions of a few arseholes who we can never influence, and they are on all sides of this problem.

i agree with that, it should be the most exciting time for us, just before the season, everything was looking up etc, but that joy and excitement is replaced with nothing just dread

 

That is an extremely well constructed statement...at the end of the day I think you have summarised what is is we all feel..

[ManfredSchaefer]

This to me is the most perplexing statement in the entire press release:

 

 

Commander Rick Nugent said soccer was a family-orientated game and police were hoping to see more families enjoying the sport this season.

“We’re determined to make the 2013/14 season the most enjoyable yet – for players, for fans and for police,†he said.

“We want to see more families at games enjoying themselves.

 

When did the Victorian police become arbiters of who has a right to enjoy football? I (like many other football fans) have no kids...am I part of some kind of unwelcome caste to be endured rather than welcomed at 'soccer'? Are we as a country that besotted with law and order and 'families' that we need the police to inform the public debate on how to support a professional sporting code?

 

Have the police ever made similar pronouncements as to who should be supporting AFL, NRL, netball, hockey, rugby, polo, cricket, motor sports etc etc? And are police actually attending A-League games for their enjoyment? Last time I looked the job of a police officer was to enforce the laws as legislated by state or federal governments, with the adjudication upon the justice of said law up to the courts. The police aren't attending our games because it is a social engagement for their hedonistic pleasure...they are there to make sure no one breaks they law and if they do then they take the relevant action.

 

I know we joke about NSW police being the best money can buy, and the manner in which the coppers turned Centrebet into an episode of 'Prisoner' was ridiculous...but they have nothing on the maniacal trigger-happy law officers of Victoria...

[Neverbloom]

 

 

Just over 12 hours since this issue reared its ugly head and I still feel like what should be a joyous time for all of us has been sullied, cheapened, soured. I've tried to articulate my thoughts in more detail on my blog but I suspect no matter the quantity or quality of our words or our deeds we are all being cheated out of exulting in our sport and our club by the actions of a few arseholes who we can never influence, and they are on all sides of this problem.

i agree with that, it should be the most exciting time for us, just before the season, everything was looking up etc, but that joy and excitement is replaced with nothing just dread

 

That is an extremely well constructed statement...at the end of the day I think you have summarised what is is we all feel..

 

thank you i just hope common sense prevails

[macriboy]

Some of the regulations are disgusting, They are treating the active support as they are in prison. Something needs to be done because if this is successful we are next. A banner or something supporting the Melbourne lads as much as i hate them is needed. The loss of active support will be a massive blow in the A-league and interest will be lost in the A-league. Its about time the fans fight back and stick up for there rights.

 

Police/ security have never experienced this type of support for a team in Australia and this is what makes Football in Australia stand out from the rest of the codes. Its the passionate supporters that drive football in this country. CANT THE FFA SEE THEY ARE GOING TO DESTROY THIS

Edited October 8, 2013 by macriboy

[1988banana]

Ohh stavup CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP I fu.......

Nah just jokin

 

B.I.T.W

[stewballs]

This to me is the most perplexing statement in the entire press release:

 

 

Commander Rick Nugent said soccer was a family-orientated game and police were hoping to see more families enjoying the sport this season.

“We’re determined to make the 2013/14 season the most enjoyable yet – for players, for fans and for police,†he said.

“We want to see more families at games enjoying themselves.

 

When did the Victorian police become arbiters of who has a right to enjoy football? I (like many other football fans) have no kids...am I part of some kind of unwelcome caste to be endured rather than welcomed at 'soccer'? Are we as a country that besotted with law and order and 'families' that we need the police to inform the public debate on how to support a professional sporting code?

 

Have the police ever made similar pronouncements as to who should be supporting AFL, NRL, netball, hockey, rugby, polo, cricket, motor sports etc etc? And are police actually attending A-League games for their enjoyment? Last time I looked the job of a police officer was to enforce the laws as legislated by state or federal governments, with the adjudication upon the justice of said law up to the courts. The police aren't attending our games because it is a social engagement for their hedonistic pleasure...they are there to make sure no one breaks they law and if they do then they take the relevant action.

 

I know we joke about NSW police being the best money can buy, and the manner in which the coppers turned Centrebet into an episode of 'Prisoner' was ridiculous...but they have nothing on the maniacal trigger-happy law officers of Victoria...

When i read the link on FFA site i felt sick and it sort of drew me to the gemneral question of,

 

What is it that the FFA want from supporters? I then forward on to the MV issues and i dont really like what im coming up with.

[teddies]

Funny how FFA don't have a problem using footage of active supporters on all their A-League ads.  I guess it was either that or this:
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[marron]

Families spend more Manfred. Bottom line.

[Neverbloom]

i dont know if this works but feel free to send the FFA a friendly email(if every 2nd word is an expletive then it doesnt really help our cause) i am sure plenty of people have sent emails but the more the FFA get the more likely they will actually do something(still dont like our chances)

[Balkanite]

Families spend more Manfred. Bottom line.

 

I dont know about this, i have spent way to much on this club last season and im just one person?

[Neverbloom]

Families spend more Manfred. Bottom line.

but active support brings families to games, millions of police do not bring families to games they deter families

[ManfredSchaefer]

Families spend more Manfred. Bottom line.

 

Possibly...to be honest I think this whole ***** country thinks unless you are able to spawn a few little sods and live some petit-bourgeois politically correct life where you consume everything they real powers that be (i.e. Murdoch, Woolworths, chardonnay socialists and right wing Christian fundies) spout you are farked.

 

It started with that whole ;working families' BS and it lingers across every part of our society.

 

FFS how many adults now live by themselves or are in fact not part of a traditional ***** family. 

[Erebus]

 

Mack that's f***ed up. Free country indeed.

 

We may need to rethink our desire to have a supporter led buyer group for the club.

 

Anyone keen to put in some $'s to buy a newspaper? Well, a couple of $M?

 

Let's make our own!

 

What we need is a fan initiated reporting thing that can be accessed by everyone. One where the fans can voice their opinions and criticise the FFA and/or club if needed.

 

Perhaps something like a podcast... 

[marron]

I wasn't suggesting it was true btw just that that idea might inform, hell does inform, a lot of the thinking. Look at prices for games and season tickets in the EPL for eg,

[westofcentre]

This is the problem. Football threatens the powers that be. The billions invested. Channel 7 has invested a billion dollars only to see the sport they invested in is losing its key demographic to football.

 

So what do you do? You protect your investment and sponsors.

 

Attack is the best form of defence.

 

For the police statement of making it a family friendly environment, this is perfect strategy for the anti football brigade.

 

It is not what the police are saying that is important, it is what they are not saying.

 

The message being that if the police need to make this sort of satement the inference is they need to make it because there is something to worry about.

 

The threat and concern has been created that greatly exagerates the reality out there.

 

Create fear, attack the key demographic, create division and erode footballs base.

[CaptGrumpy]

 

Families spend more Manfred. Bottom line.

but active support brings families to games, millions of police do not bring families to games they deter families

 

 

I don't agree Goat...

 

Families don't pay memberships to see the RBB (or any other active support group) - although having the likes of the RBB certainly enhance the experince.  So active support groups can be a double edged sword to the club - they can enhance the experience but if things are perceived to get out of hand then they can drive supporters away.  I spoke a number of families last season who were amazed that I was taking my family because "it's not safe there because of the crazies".  Now I spent a huge amount of time trying to convince people that it wasn't bad and that they should come along to try it out and they might enjoy themselves.  Whether it is true or not is irrelevant - what matters is these perceptions have impacts on people. 

 

The statement on the FFA site is about trying to imporve that perception - it's like them saying "look it's a safe palce - we have police saying that they will not tolerate bad behaviour, you can safely come and enjoy our product".

[theguyyouwishyouwere]

This is the problem. Football threatens the powers that be. The billions invested. Channel 7 has invested a billion dollars only to see the sport they invested in is losing its key demographic to football.

 

So what do you do? You protect your investment and sponsors.

 

Attack is the best form of defence.

 

For the police statement of making it a family friendly environment, this is perfect strategy for the anti football brigade.

 

It is not what the police are saying that is important, it is what they are not saying.

 

The message being that if the police need to make this sort of satement the inference is they need to make it because there is something to worry about.

 

The threat and concern has been created that greatly exagerates the reality out there.

 

Create fear, attack the key demographic, create division and erode footballs base.

 

sometimes you sound like nelson mandela WOC.......what your saying maybe be right, but the with the passion and the way in which you want to take the fight to the opressors - wil probably end up with you locked away for 30-odd years

[Neverbloom]

 

 

Families spend more Manfred. Bottom line.

but active support brings families to games, millions of police do not bring families to games they deter families

 

 

I don't agree Goat...

 

Families don't pay memberships to see the RBB (or any other active support group) - although having the likes of the RBB certainly enhance the experince.  So active support groups can be a double edged sword to the club - they can enhance the experience but if things are perceived to get out of hand then they can drive supporters away.  I spoke a number of families last season who were amazed that I was taking my family because "it's not safe there because of the crazies".  Now I spent a huge amount of time trying to convince people that it wasn't bad and that they should come along to try it out and they might enjoy themselves.  Whether it is true or not is irrelevant - what matters is these perceptions have impacts on people. 

 

The statement on the FFA site is about trying to imporve that perception - it's like them saying "look it's a safe palce - we have police saying that they will not tolerate bad behaviour, you can safely come and enjoy our product".

 

true, it all comes down to how much influence the pro egg ball media have at the moment, i remember after the second derby my friend asked me if i was alright because they had reported there were massive riots and its just the blatant lies of a few media organisations that cause this, not active support

 

pity perception is everything, the media portray us as animals and most mindless idiots(sadly there are plenty in Australia) will believe that, i guess its up to us to inform people of what active support is about and all the good things we have done(and we have done a lot of things) but no one knows that the amazing stuff we do is on this forum and maybe fourfourtwo but its not anywhere to be seen on sites where people who might believe the media's lies can access it

 

that is why i would love Ten on our side, they wanted football at some point and are much more likely to side with us than 9 or 7 but without our own media we dont have many ways in which we can defend ourselves(for singing and jumping) to the masses

 

sorry i tend to ramble i am just tired of this

[westofcentre]

 

 

 

Families spend more Manfred. Bottom line.

but active support brings families to games, millions of police do not bring families to games they deter families

 

 

I don't agree Goat...

 

Families don't pay memberships to see the RBB (or any other active support group) - although having the likes of the RBB certainly enhance the experince.  So active support groups can be a double edged sword to the club - they can enhance the experience but if things are perceived to get out of hand then they can drive supporters away.  I spoke a number of families last season who were amazed that I was taking my family because "it's not safe there because of the crazies".  Now I spent a huge amount of time trying to convince people that it wasn't bad and that they should come along to try it out and they might enjoy themselves.  Whether it is true or not is irrelevant - what matters is these perceptions have impacts on people. 

 

The statement on the FFA site is about trying to imporve that perception - it's like them saying "look it's a safe palce - we have police saying that they will not tolerate bad behaviour, you can safely come and enjoy our product".

 

true, it all comes down to how much influence the pro egg ball media have at the moment, i remember after the second derby my friend asked me if i was alright because they had reported there were massive riots and its just the blatant lies of a few media organisations that cause this, not active support

 

pity perception is everything, the media portray us as animals and most mindless idiots(sadly there are plenty in Australia) will believe that, i guess its up to us to inform people of what active support is about and all the good things we have done(and we have done a lot of things) but no one knows that the amazing stuff we do is on this forum and maybe fourfourtwo but its not anywhere to be seen on sites where people who might believe the media's lies can access it

 

that is why i would love Ten on our side, they wanted football at some point and are much more likely to side with us than 9 or 7 but without our own media we dont have many ways in which we can defend ourselves(for singing and jumping) to the masses

 

sorry i tend to ramble i am just tired of this

 

Well said Goat. I believe a Channel 9 official came out recently and expressed interest in the A-league. Once this happens - you begin to see a shift in attitude.

 

Look at the Telegraph. Although they will go on their anti-football rants to sell a paper, they are not as bad as they once were when they had links to the NRL.

[pushiepedlar]

This is the problem. Football threatens the powers that be. The billions invested. Channel 7 has invested a billion dollars only to see the sport they invested in is losing its key demographic to football.

 

So what do you do? You protect your investment and sponsors.

 

Attack is the best form of defence.

 

For the police statement of making it a family friendly environment, this is perfect strategy for the anti football brigade.

 

It is not what the police are saying that is important, it is what they are not saying.

 

The message being that if the police need to make this sort of satement the inference is they need to make it because there is something to worry about.

 

The threat and concern has been created that greatly exagerates the reality out there.

 

Create fear, attack the key demographic, create division and erode footballs base.

 

This is an important point.

 

We have a family membership, two kids, 6 and 3, (sorry manfred fitting into the happy families stereotype that you love so much), My wife and I both have a hard time convincing work colleagues and friends, who, mind you, have never attended a football match in their lives, (except for maybe ones where their primary school aged children are participating) that we are responsible parents because we have been taking our kids to the games. Let alone following the RBB marches, attending the BBQ in newcastle etc etc.

 

They ignorantly show legitimate fear for my kids safety because all they see is the biased media portrayal of what is the highlight of the week for both the kids.

 

The movement and noise of the RBB, the fact they can join in the singing, clapping, jumping, flag waving, scarf twirling, making the actual football match a distant second in terms of entertainment value. The fact they get just as excited about seeing photos of the RBB and Skin leading a chant as they do about seeing Shinji Ono also confirms the role the RBB plays in making it family friendly. So much so in fact, i don't think we, as parents would be able to sit through a whole football game with these two active kids without the RBB looking after them by keeping the kids attention. I mean, they are way too young to appreciate the link up play between Polenz and Hersi, the last ditch tackle by Beauchamp, the perfect positioning of Poljak to break up another attack or even the sublime skill of Ono slotting another goal. Without the RBB we'd be all over the place trying to keep these two occupied much to the chargrin of those seated near us.  

 

It is the RBB that makes the atmosphere family friendly. The FFA need to realise this. We've not been to a game in melbourne but i'm sure the same is true down there.

 

Ok, its not perfect, lets be conservative and assume that 0.1% (1 in every thousand) people are dicks, that means we'll have approximately 20 at each game this season. Surely the 19980 non-dicks can help to weed out the few, we don't need however many hundred (thousand?) security and police personnel to do that. Especially when their mere presence seems to increase the dick %age by at least a factor of 5.

 

Anyway, i guess what i'm trying to say is that it is one thing for the active support to stand up against the actions being taken against them. Thats expected and the FFA, police probably already have a contingency plan for such an event. Its another thing entirely if the the people that they are supposedly protecting, the working families, (sorry manfred really hamming it up now) stand up and say, hands off our active support. Is that even possible? do you think we can get enough of the families to send an email/letter, sign a petition, whatever to say "Hey FFA, hands off for a minute, we're building something good here. We'll let you know if we need your protection. TA!"  yours sincerely #footballfamily.

[chenko]

 

Families spend more Manfred. Bottom line.

 

Possibly...to be honest I think this whole ***** country thinks unless you are able to spawn a few little sods and live some petit-bourgeois politically correct life where you consume everything they real powers that be (i.e. Murdoch, Woolworths, chardonnay socialists and right wing Christian fundies) spout you are farked.

 

It started with that whole ;working families' BS and it lingers across every part of our society.

 

FFS how many adults now live by themselves or are in fact not part of a traditional ***** family. 

 

 

quality rant!

[Montalbano]

Some good news amongst all the crap that has gone on recently. ABC radio has announced that they will call all live a-league matches on their ABC Grandstand program. Another great step for Football in this country. Seems like cricket is getting shafted out (who had a monopoly on ABC radio over many years). Looks like Cricket is putting all their eggs into the hit and giggle form of the game.

[westofcentre]

 

This is the problem. Football threatens the powers that be. The billions invested. Channel 7 has invested a billion dollars only to see the sport they invested in is losing its key demographic to football.

 

So what do you do? You protect your investment and sponsors.

 

Attack is the best form of defence.

 

For the police statement of making it a family friendly environment, this is perfect strategy for the anti football brigade.

 

It is not what the police are saying that is important, it is what they are not saying.

 

The message being that if the police need to make this sort of satement the inference is they need to make it because there is something to worry about.

 

The threat and concern has been created that greatly exagerates the reality out there.

 

Create fear, attack the key demographic, create division and erode footballs base.

 

sometimes you sound like nelson mandela WOC.......what your saying maybe be right, but the with the passion and the way in which you want to take the fight to the opressors - wil probably end up with you locked away for 30-odd years

 

 

Mate I have trouble hurting the damn Indian Mynah that comes and craps in my back yard everyday! Lol - Nothing aggressive about me! But there are ways we can make our voice heard in a civilised manner.......mmmmmmmmmmmmmaybe the odd flare

 

ps That was  a joke. Please do not write an article on that statement Channel 7

Edited October 8, 2013 by westofcentre

[stavup]

 

Families spend more Manfred. Bottom line.

but active support brings families to games, millions of police do not bring families to games they deter families

 

Without the RBB and that dynamic atmosphere that they create, the FFA and Wanderers would have 18 members less from my lot alone...thats 18 memberships and about $200 worth of merch each, plus all the money we spend at each game including travelling to away games..Big gamble FFA..

 

The RBB perhaps one of the biggest reasons for our continued interest..

[stavup]

Ohh stavup CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP I fu.......

Nah just jokin

 

B.I.T.W

CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP...All good Nana...Dog with a bone you are...looking forward to sharing a refreshing lemon sprittzer and croissant at the Roxy, before I march in my coloured G banger..

[HungHuynh]

 

 

Families spend more Manfred. Bottom line.

but active support brings families to games, millions of police do not bring families to games they deter families

 

Without the RBB and that dynamic atmosphere that they create, the FFA and Wanderers would have 18 members less from my lot alone...thats 18 memberships and about $200 worth of merch each, plus all the money we spend at each game including travelling to away games..Big gamble FFA..

 

Let me be straight...blunt.

Prior to Rnd1 WSWvCCM 2012, I have never in my life been to any live sporting event at all.

Since last year, I've been to all our home games, a collective away games, all but seven hills pre-season.

I am not good at describing my feeling, but whatever Wanderers have its making me keep coming back for more!

 

Even though we claim we're a sporting nation, we mostly follow the team via media. Majority of us haven't etched in the culture of going out to the game. Proven NRL. Fans to the sport are there, but without experiencing live sport with spectacle of RBB atmosphere. Most would conclude watching on TV is more enjoyable.

 

All we need is word of mouth, get people out to the game. Let them form their own opinion after they experience a match at Wanderland.

[Neverbloom]

 

 

 

 

Families spend more Manfred. Bottom line.

but active support brings families to games, millions of police do not bring families to games they deter families

 

 

I don't agree Goat...

 

Families don't pay memberships to see the RBB (or any other active support group) - although having the likes of the RBB certainly enhance the experince.  So active support groups can be a double edged sword to the club - they can enhance the experience but if things are perceived to get out of hand then they can drive supporters away.  I spoke a number of families last season who were amazed that I was taking my family because "it's not safe there because of the crazies".  Now I spent a huge amount of time trying to convince people that it wasn't bad and that they should come along to try it out and they might enjoy themselves.  Whether it is true or not is irrelevant - what matters is these perceptions have impacts on people. 

 

The statement on the FFA site is about trying to imporve that perception - it's like them saying "look it's a safe palce - we have police saying that they will not tolerate bad behaviour, you can safely come and enjoy our product".

 

true, it all comes down to how much influence the pro egg ball media have at the moment, i remember after the second derby my friend asked me if i was alright because they had reported there were massive riots and its just the blatant lies of a few media organisations that cause this, not active support

 

pity perception is everything, the media portray us as animals and most mindless idiots(sadly there are plenty in Australia) will believe that, i guess its up to us to inform people of what active support is about and all the good things we have done(and we have done a lot of things) but no one knows that the amazing stuff we do is on this forum and maybe fourfourtwo but its not anywhere to be seen on sites where people who might believe the media's lies can access it

 

that is why i would love Ten on our side, they wanted football at some point and are much more likely to side with us than 9 or 7 but without our own media we dont have many ways in which we can defend ourselves(for singing and jumping) to the masses

 

sorry i tend to ramble i am just tired of this

 

Well said Goat. I believe a Channel 9 official came out recently and expressed interest in the A-league. Once this happens - you begin to see a shift in attitude.

 

Look at the Telegraph. Although they will go on their anti-football rants to sell a paper, they are not as bad as they once were when they had links to the NRL.

 

i did not 9 expressed interest, i think their anti football garbage is becoming less effective with the general population but still seems to effect those who have power and gives them knee jerk reactions which leads to this current situation

 

 

 

Families spend more Manfred. Bottom line.

but active support brings families to games, millions of police do not bring families to games they deter families

 

Without the RBB and that dynamic atmosphere that they create, the FFA and Wanderers would have 18 members less from my lot alone...thats 18 memberships and about $200 worth of merch each, plus all the money we spend at each game including travelling to away games..Big gamble FFA..

 

The RBB perhaps one of the biggest reasons for our continued interest..

 

i agree 100%, some people come for the atmosphere and stay for the football(quite a lot actually)

 

 

 

 

Families spend more Manfred. Bottom line.

but active support brings families to games, millions of police do not bring families to games they deter families

 

Without the RBB and that dynamic atmosphere that they create, the FFA and Wanderers would have 18 members less from my lot alone...thats 18 memberships and about $200 worth of merch each, plus all the money we spend at each game including travelling to away games..Big gamble FFA..

 

Let me be straight...blunt.

Prior to Rnd1 WSWvCCM 2012, I have never in my life been to any live sporting event at all.

Since last year, I've been to all our home games, a collective away games, all but seven hills pre-season.

I am not good at describing my feeling, but whatever Wanderers have its making me keep coming back for more!

 

Even though we claim we're a sporting nation, we mostly follow the team via media. Majority of us haven't etched in the culture of going out to the game. Proven NRL. Fans to the sport are there, but without experiencing live sport with spectacle of RBB atmosphere. Most would conclude watching on TV is more enjoyable.

 

All we need is word of mouth, get people out to the game. Let them form their own opinion after they experience a match at Wanderland.

 

i am the same almost, never been to many sporting events but i dont miss wanderers games

 

i dont want to take over the thread so this will be my last post but if anyone has not emailed the FFA(active support or not) tell them how many people active support have brought to football, and how much money we are really worth because good active support is the difference between us and victory and GCU

[Unlimited]

How about a petition?

 

I mean, they have those websites which have petitions - we can maybe do something like that? Something like "Dear FFA, we have a good thing going around here - please stop these draconian methods, etc."

 

Might work?

 

 

Emails and stuff are great, but directing them to a link with 30 000 signatures has to mean something.

[swoods21]

As a Southern GA ticketed member the most unsafe I have felt at an A-league game was the situation described in the article at the GF at Allianz where if the supporters were as described there would been an absolute disaster. It was a proud moment for me as a WSW supporter to see the supporters who had obviously been lining at for ages happily motioned for parents of young children who were obviously in the throng to the front to let them in safely. I was called through as well having my 11 yo son and his mate with me, also with me was a mate of mine originally from the UK who described the situation as the sort that had led to the various fan crushes overseas. It was a joke of a monumental scale to even have that situation close to that when all involved knew the game was a sellout to have one turnstile operating. A conspiracy theorist would even suggest some would be hoping for something of that nature!!

[ManfredSchaefer]

Can someone explain the hierarchy or chain of command vis-a-vis the club, Hatamoto & the cops when it comes to the administration of behaviour codes & the law in the precinct of any ground. I would think that whilst Hataomoto is there either at the behest of the club and/or stadium the police have the ultimate power to direct behaviour. Therefore if a direct dialogue between the active fans and the police was established wouldn't that be more helpful than trying to lobby via the club and seccos?

 

And I know this is also left of centre, but I wonder if the success of the A-League in terms of its burgeoning and broadening appeal is actually acting as an incentive for certain parties to work if not against the actives as to marginalise them. When the core of the support is active and it's those people who consistently form the financial and cultural backbone of clubs when times are tough, the FFA and the clubs need them. With a growing number of families or non-active fans setting the supporting agenda, buying merchandise and memberships, they are tilting the demographic basis away from the first and most passionate people in the club.

 

Don't get me wrong...I am very happy to see everyone from the individual who sits quietly in Bay 28 and just watches the game through to the rabid clan of RBB friends, via kiddies, mums, dads, any sort of kith or bloody kin behind the Wanderers. However in a commercial sports marketplace where the established dollars and prestige go to clubs and codes that broaden their appeal, the RBB and other active support groups are in effect cultivating their own downfall. This isn't a matter of behaviour, but of making football so popular they are no longer needed as football's Jesuits, or storm troops, perpetually fighting for the honour and image of their club. With mass appeal comes a lowering of (passionate) standards