FFA Attempting To Destroy Active Support

[NickNova]

If it were our own stadia perhaps, but while the egg-ball code plays in the same stadia, nothing will be changed.
They can use the chairs breaking/becoming unhinged as an excuse saying "destruction of property", but until they stand on one for over 90 mins that should shut up.

[ManfredSchaefer]

If the FFA were really working closely with clubs about active support then they would provide a grant for each club to install safe standing terraces. This would stop breaking of seats that they go on about. Just an idea. None of us break chairs intentionally, at the grand final in particular they were just collapsing.

 

They need to stop trying to find a solution for the result of the problem and find one for the cause of it

Interesting point, however what exactly is the nexus between the FFA, the clubs and the grounds that would actually make such a proposal possible. The way I understand it (and I could be wrong) the clubs have no ability in terms of managing or affecting changes to the physical construction of any ground they play in, as they are all leased or hired as venues (the only club that might have that opportunity would be the Mariners if they buy BlueTongue). Furthermore what sort of OH&S legislative issues are at play either from state to state or nationally regarding what constitutes a 'safe standing terrace', and who gets to decide and implement such policies and procedures?

 

I suspect that as almost all venues used by the FFA and by the A-League clubs are multi-sport/multi-function arenas owned by other parties the potential for change for the fixtures is limited at best and may indeed be impossible. The FFA and the clubs could and should lobby where possible (as was done recently with Wanderland's planned extensions) regarding the grounds but ultimately they are beholden to what existing legal and property ownership structures apply.

[Pablo]

 

If the FFA were really working closely with clubs about active support then they would provide a grant for each club to install safe standing terraces. This would stop breaking of seats that they go on about. Just an idea. None of us break chairs intentionally, at the grand final in particular they were just collapsing.

 

They need to stop trying to find a solution for the result of the problem and find one for the cause of it

Interesting point, however what exactly is the nexus between the FFA, the clubs and the grounds that would actually make such a proposal possible. The way I understand it (and I could be wrong) the clubs have no ability in terms of managing or affecting changes to the physical construction of any ground they play in, as they are all leased or hired as venues (the only club that might have that opportunity would be the Mariners if they buy BlueTongue). Furthermore what sort of OH&S legislative issues are at play either from state to state or nationally regarding what constitutes a 'safe standing terrace', and who gets to decide and implement such policies and procedures?

 

I suspect that as almost all venues used by the FFA and by the A-League clubs are multi-sport/multi-function arenas owned by other parties the potential for change for the fixtures is limited at best and may indeed be impossible. The FFA and the clubs could and should lobby where possible (as was done recently with Wanderland's planned extensions) regarding the grounds but ultimately they are beholden to what existing legal and property ownership structures apply.

 

 

re OH&S and the design and installation of active fans friendly terracing areas with fold up seats (like examples in Germany), there is an opportunity for relevant stadiums/HAL/FFA to be proactive and develop some guidelines and standards for recognition via Standards Australia

http://www.standards.org.au/Pages/default.aspx

this should involve consultation with leaders of active fans supporter groups and seeing what has worked well in Europe

[ManfredSchaefer]

 

 

If the FFA were really working closely with clubs about active support then they would provide a grant for each club to install safe standing terraces. This would stop breaking of seats that they go on about. Just an idea. None of us break chairs intentionally, at the grand final in particular they were just collapsing.

 

They need to stop trying to find a solution for the result of the problem and find one for the cause of it

Interesting point, however what exactly is the nexus between the FFA, the clubs and the grounds that would actually make such a proposal possible. The way I understand it (and I could be wrong) the clubs have no ability in terms of managing or affecting changes to the physical construction of any ground they play in, as they are all leased or hired as venues (the only club that might have that opportunity would be the Mariners if they buy BlueTongue). Furthermore what sort of OH&S legislative issues are at play either from state to state or nationally regarding what constitutes a 'safe standing terrace', and who gets to decide and implement such policies and procedures?

 

I suspect that as almost all venues used by the FFA and by the A-League clubs are multi-sport/multi-function arenas owned by other parties the potential for change for the fixtures is limited at best and may indeed be impossible. The FFA and the clubs could and should lobby where possible (as was done recently with Wanderland's planned extensions) regarding the grounds but ultimately they are beholden to what existing legal and property ownership structures apply.

 

 

re OH&S and the design and installation of active fans friendly terracing areas with fold up seats (like examples in Germany), there is an opportunity for relevant stadiums/HAL/FFA to be proactive and develop some guidelines and standards for recognition via Standards Australia

http://www.standards.org.au/Pages/default.aspx

this should involve consultation with leaders of active fans supporter groups and seeing what has worked well in Europe

 

Good point but the bottom line is...can the FFA or the clubs and the active supporters together affect such a change with the stadia? Methinks as long as you have situations like those at Wanderland, AAMI, Allianz, Suncorp, Hunter & maybe BlueTongue where they are multi-sport and have non football owners any attempts to change seating configurations will be beaten back, or come at an exorbitant cost.

 

How much of this current kerfuffle would be avoided if the FFA and the clubs and preceding administrators had been able to get us our own home grounds free of any external ownership or multi-use requirements. 

[Drone]

[matty]

 

 

 

Matty, there is a small but very vocal element in active support at Victory who believe that the laws of the land should be suspended on the terraces so they can do whatever they think will enhance their enjoyment of the moment. It is this small group that is the tail wagging the dog.

So you think clubs and the FFA are heading in the right direction with their management of active groups?

I'm not close enough to know what is happening in general but I do know that what is happening in Victoria is a response driven by government to eliminate the unacceptable behaviour that saw the Premier go to the press following an incident last year promising a crack down and threatening to increase fines etc which I think has happened. The FFA and the clubs don't set what is acceptable behaviour that is the role of the government and the owner of the venue. They are, however, involved with the authorities in how the decisions are implemented at their events. Some of the measures seem a bit over the top as are some of the fan responses.

So you agree that some of the measures welcomed by clubs and the FFA are over the top. You also agree clubs and FFA play an important role in how these measures are implemented.

 

Yet you see fit to go against your fellow supporters and claim they are being 'over the top'. Maybe we are, but the fact we have no one, NO ONE, from any position of authority listening to our concerns regarding this is a massive worry. And when no one listens, what happens? People scream louder - and that's what you see here.

 

Considering this has been an escalating concern most of last season as well as the FFAs and certain clubs histories dealing with active support (MV, ADU, SFC), I'm surprised at your input in this as I know you're a big fan. I can only assume you weren't around much until now?

[marron]

Flytox, I'm curious about the premier angle as evidence for the problem... Because I wonder if other sports would provoke the same response from such a senior figure.

 

 

 

 

 

Matty, there is a small but very vocal element in active support at Victory who believe that the laws of the land should be suspended on the terraces so they can do whatever they think will enhance their enjoyment of the moment. It is this small group that is the tail wagging the dog.

So you think clubs and the FFA are heading in the right direction with their management of active groups?

I'm not close enough to know what is happening in general but I do know that what is happening in Victoria is a response driven by government to eliminate the unacceptable behaviour that saw the Premier go to the press following an incident last year promising a crack down and threatening to increase fines etc which I think has happened. The FFA and the clubs don't set what is acceptable behaviour that is the role of the government and the owner of the venue. They are, however, involved with the authorities in how the decisions are implemented at their events. Some of the measures seem a bit over the top as are some of the fan responses.

So you agree that some of the measures welcomed by clubs and the FFA are over the top. You also agree clubs and FFA play an important role in how these measures are implemented.

 

Yet you see fit to go against your fellow supporters and claim they are being 'over the top'. Maybe we are, but the fact we have no one, NO ONE, from any position of authority listening to our concerns regarding this is a massive worry. And when no one listens, what happens? People scream louder - and that's what you see here.

 

Considering this has been an escalating concern most of last season as well as the FFAs and certain clubs histories dealing with active support (MV, ADU, SFC), I'm surprised at your input in this as I know you're a big fan. I can only assume you weren't around much until now?

[Flytox]

Flytox, I'm curious about the premier angle as evidence for the problem... Because I wonder if other sports would provoke the same response from such a senior figure.

 

 

A few links that set the context and then detail Premier Baileau's reaction and planned legislation in response to what happened.  Also a link to Premier Napthine's press release on how this current action with regard to A-League games in Melbourne fits in with the Government's anti violence campaign.

 

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/morons-call-for-soccer-mayhem/story-fnat79vb-1226570372530

 

http://www.news.com.au/tablet/melbourne-victory-supporter-group-trying-to-recreate-1980s-hooliganism-police-say/story-fnejlub9-1226580574686

 

http://www.news.com.au/national-news/victoria/cricket-ratbags-face-fines-bans/story-fndo4cq1-1226581938631

 

http://www.premier.vic.gov.au/media-centre/media-releases/6081-coalition-government-introduces-new-offences-to-crack-down-on-sports-hooligans134.html

 

http://www.premier.vic.gov.au/media-centre/media-releases/8012-going-for-zero-on-soccer-violence.html

 

 

You're question is a good one.  I don't know the answer but I believe if a couple of significant incidents occurred back to back then they ought to.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Flytox

[wendybr]

"We will not tolerate flares, damage to public property and violence." 

Will FFA, Hatamoto and the Police lay off on Active Support if we keep FFA up on the above statement?

 

I don't know what the answer to this question actually is, but I for one would actually like to attend ONE Wanderers game where we managed to get through the whole occasion without a flare or smokie. (We almost have managed it once or twice)  I'm not aware of any violence at any Wanderers game, and, while damage to public property has occurred on a couple of instances, I don't think this has been common at our games.

 

I can't comment on the situation in Melbourne, but I suspect that Flytox may be right when he referred a small but disruptive and anarchic group being the main focus of the attention of the authorities. Does that justify all of the over the top measures proposed down there...NO...but I really don't think that  the intention of the FFA etc is to shut down active support. That would be absurd!! (and that isn't to deny a campaign by the other codes and their affiliated media interests to suppress the tidal wave of new support for football that most of us are anticipating in coming seasons)

 

As regards the Wanderers, the absurd police presence throughout last season and at the Penrith game I believe does have quite a lot to do with the flares. No.... ripping  flares may not be an acts of violence, but they are illegal and, more importantly potentially dangerous.  I have read the comments of SO MANY others on threads going back to the early weeks of the WSW Forums...and many very respected supporters and forum identities have made logical arguments ( and in some cases, pleas) for an end to flares.  

 

Have these appeals worked...obviously not. Do I sit here thinking that this post will make a difference to those who cannot put the good of  active support and the club before their own desire for what constitutes a bit of a thrill.... NO, sadly I don't.

 

But to anyone who rips a flare and actually thinks they are adding to the spectacle/game day experience etc etc....can I comment on how I sat in the Eastern stand on Australia Day, and had a full view of the fireworks "spectacular"  on show in Parra Park. Were the fans at that game mesmerised by the $10000s worth of  bright lights, smoke and loud explosions on full show... HELL NO!! They had gone to WATCH a game of  football, and hopefully participate in the singing/cheering/chanting generated by the RBB.

 

Even the kids did little more than glance towards a 15 minute pyrotechnic display, then return their attention to the game. The idea that spectators at a Wanderers game stop in their tracks in delight to watch a flare or smokie is delusional!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

And other than the ONE glass throwing incident during ONE march, what else has the media had to report in the way of anti-social incidents at Wanderers games??? Incidents will not make the media ( as has been pointed out in other posts here) without footage. It is ludicrous for some elements of the media to portray Wanderers supporters as presenting any sort of threat to public safety.  However as long as flares are a highly visible feature of our games, the perception will exist that there are elements of our supporter base who are out to defy authority, and are potentially a threat to the safety of others. And as long as those around them condone this, active support and all WSW fans will potentially suffer.

[Pablo]

 

Flytox, I'm curious about the premier angle as evidence for the problem... Because I wonder if other sports would provoke the same response from such a senior figure.

 

 

A few links that set the context and then detail Premier Baileau's reaction and planned legislation in response to what happened.  Also a link to Premier Napthine's press release on how this current action with regard to A-League games in Melbourne fits in with the Government's anti violence campaign.

 

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/morons-call-for-soccer-mayhem/story-fnat79vb-1226570372530

 

http://www.news.com.au/tablet/melbourne-victory-supporter-group-trying-to-recreate-1980s-hooliganism-police-say/story-fnejlub9-1226580574686

 

http://www.news.com.au/national-news/victoria/cricket-ratbags-face-fines-bans/story-fndo4cq1-1226581938631

 

http://www.premier.vic.gov.au/media-centre/media-releases/6081-coalition-government-introduces-new-offences-to-crack-down-on-sports-hooligans134.html

 

http://www.premier.vic.gov.au/media-centre/media-releases/8012-going-for-zero-on-soccer-violence.html

 

 

You're question is a good one.  I don't know the answer but I believe if a couple of significant incidents occurred back to back then they ought to.

 

 

typical of a Victorian government potentially facing defeat in not too distant future, especially if that independent is convicted of crimes (they rely on his vote to stay in power)

 

so they turn to get tough law and order issues to try and show the electorate they are in control - pathetic

 

football is merely collateral damage in the process

[westofcentre]

Wendybr - with the understanding that flares are illegal and should not be brought in I can guarantee that police will not lay off if flares stopped.

 

The cause of the treatment we experience (in the main) is not because of flares. They are a combination of agenda driven bias and the inability of police and authorities to understand and manage active support.

 

If its not going to be flares its broken chairs, its anti- social behaviour, its limits to banners/instruments its been tailed by police because you want to march as a group.

Edited October 9, 2013 by westofcentre

[HungHuynh]

 

"We will not tolerate flares, damage to public property and violence." 

Will FFA, Hatamoto and the Police lay off on Active Support if we keep FFA up on the above statement?

 

I don't know what the answer to this question actually is, but I for one would actually like to attend ONE Wanderers game where we managed to get through the whole occasion without a flare or smokie. (We almost have managed it once or twice)  I'm not aware of any violence at any Wanderers game, and, while damage to public property has occurred on a couple of instances, I don't think this has been common at our games.

 

I can't comment on the situation in Melbourne, but I suspect that Flytox may be right when he referred a small but disruptive and anarchic group being the main focus of the attention of the authorities. Does that justify all of the over the top measures proposed down there...NO...but I really don't think that  the intention of the FFA etc is to shut down active support. That would be absurd!! (and that isn't to deny a campaign by the other codes and their affiliated media interests to suppress the tidal wave of new support for football that most of us are anticipating in coming seasons)

 

As regards the Wanderers, the absurd police presence throughout last season and at the Penrith game I believe does have quite a lot to do with the flares. No.... ripping  flares may not be an acts of violence, but they are illegal and, more importantly potentially dangerous.  I have read the comments of SO MANY others on threads going back to the early weeks of the WSW Forums...and many very respected supporters and forum identities have made logical arguments ( and in some cases, pleas) for an end to flares.  

 

Have these appeals worked...obviously not. Do I sit here thinking that this post will make a difference to those who cannot put the good of  active support and the club before their own desire for what constitutes a bit of a thrill.... NO, sadly I don't.

 

But to anyone who rips a flare and actually thinks they are adding to the spectacle/game day experience etc etc....can I comment on how I sat in the Eastern stand on Australia Day, and had a full view of the fireworks "spectacular"  on show in Parra Park. Were the fans at that game mesmerised by the $10000s worth of  bright lights, smoke and loud explosions on full show... HELL NO!! They had gone to WATCH a game of  football, and hopefully participate in the singing/cheering/chanting generated by the RBB.

 

Even the kids did little more than glance towards a 15 minute pyrotechnic display, then return their attention to the game. The idea that spectators at a Wanderers game stop in their tracks in delight to watch a flare or smokie is delusional!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

And other than the ONE glass throwing incident during ONE march, what else has the media had to report in the way of anti-social incidents at Wanderers games??? Incidents will not make the media ( as has been pointed out in other posts here) without footage. It is ludicrous for some elements of the media to portray Wanderers supporters as presenting any sort of threat to public safety.  However as long as flares are a highly visible feature of our games, the perception will exist that there are elements of our supporter base who are out to defy authority, and are potentially a threat to the safety of others. And as long as those around them condone this, active support and all WSW fans will potentially suffer.

 

Broken chairs at sfs.

 

You know how they say.. The race that stops Melbourne.

We have the Game that stop Sydney!

[wendybr]

Wendybr - with the understanding that flares are illegal and should not be brought in I can guarantee that police will not lay off if flares stopped.

 

The cause of the treatment we experience (in the main) is not because of flares. They are a combination of agenda driven bias and the inability of police and authorities to understand and manage active support.

 

If its not going to be flares its broken chairs, its anti- social behaviour, its limits to banners/instruments its been tailed by police because you want to march as a group.

 

I do understand that if we went 12 months without a flare (LOL!) we would continue to have a significant police presence at our games..Unfortunately, a VERY FEW incidents at our games have gained disproportionate amounts of negative press, and I'm sorry, but the long history of intense rivalries extending for decades in our code will take more time to dim in the memories of those people negatively disposed towards football. We have to cop that until the perception changes, as it will if the spirit of celebration continues to be the flavour of Wanderers games.

 

Having said that, do I agree that the other sporting codes will continue to work  towards undermining the increasing strength of football.... ABSOLUTELY!!!!

 

Do I think that media outlets such as CH 7 and 9 will pounce on ANY breaches of law and order/ any incidences of aggression or violence...ABSOLUTELY!!!!  

 

But when we want everyone pulling together to change the perceptions (media and wider community) towards football, do I think that the appearance of flares is damaging, in a very easily communicated fashion...YEP, I do!

[Flytox]

Wendybr - with the understanding that flares are illegal and should not be brought in I can guarantee that police will not lay off if flares stopped.

 

The cause of the treatment we experience (in the main) is not because of flares. They are a combination of agenda driven bias and the inability of police and authorities to understand and manage active support.

 

If its not going to be flares its broken chairs, its anti- social behaviour, its limits to banners/instruments its been tailed by police because you want to march as a group.

Other than broken chairs and being tailed by police the other issues you mention are "illegal" in the Conditions of Hire of the stadium.  Any flexibility on these is a matter of negotiation with the venues owners.  Neither the FFA nor the club can authorise relaxation.

 

http://www.pirtekstadium.com/events/conditions-of-entry

[dmixtaaa]

Wendybr - with the understanding that flares are illegal and should not be brought in I can guarantee that police will not lay off if flares stopped.

 

The cause of the treatment we experience (in the main) is not because of flares. They are a combination of agenda driven bias and the inability of police and authorities to understand and manage active support.

 

If its not going to be flares its broken chairs, its anti- social behaviour, its limits to banners/instruments its been tailed by police because you want to march as a group.

Umm, you know this as fact how??? Google RBB from an outsider's look and see what images come up. I despise the dangerous and illegal compensation devices for anatomically challenged children. I go to Wanderland to watch the football, have a beer and have a good time. I've been doing this all my life in the NSL before the A League. I have never been thrown out nor been worried about over zealous security and I have never been into trouble with the law. Everyone is in charge of their own destiny. Every time I see one ripped I'm so very disappointed because some twat has just given my club a bad name, tarnished my game yet again and given the media vultures ammo to bring out these draconian rules which we are all obsessing our time with, instead of looking forward to our season opener in 3 sleeps time. 

[wendybr]

 

 

"We will not tolerate flares, damage to public property and violence." 

Will FFA, Hatamoto and the Police lay off on Active Support if we keep FFA up on the above statement?

 

I don't know what the answer to this question actually is, but I for one would actually like to attend ONE Wanderers game where we managed to get through the whole occasion without a flare or smokie. (We almost have managed it once or twice)  I'm not aware of any violence at any Wanderers game, and, while damage to public property has occurred on a couple of instances, I don't think this has been common at our games.

 

I can't comment on the situation in Melbourne, but I suspect that Flytox may be right when he referred a small but disruptive and anarchic group being the main focus of the attention of the authorities. Does that justify all of the over the top measures proposed down there...NO...but I really don't think that  the intention of the FFA etc is to shut down active support. That would be absurd!! (and that isn't to deny a campaign by the other codes and their affiliated media interests to suppress the tidal wave of new support for football that most of us are anticipating in coming seasons)

 

As regards the Wanderers, the absurd police presence throughout last season and at the Penrith game I believe does have quite a lot to do with the flares. No.... ripping  flares may not be an acts of violence, but they are illegal and, more importantly potentially dangerous.  I have read the comments of SO MANY others on threads going back to the early weeks of the WSW Forums...and many very respected supporters and forum identities have made logical arguments ( and in some cases, pleas) for an end to flares.  

 

Have these appeals worked...obviously not. Do I sit here thinking that this post will make a difference to those who cannot put the good of  active support and the club before their own desire for what constitutes a bit of a thrill.... NO, sadly I don't.

 

But to anyone who rips a flare and actually thinks they are adding to the spectacle/game day experience etc etc....can I comment on how I sat in the Eastern stand on Australia Day, and had a full view of the fireworks "spectacular"  on show in Parra Park. Were the fans at that game mesmerised by the $10000s worth of  bright lights, smoke and loud explosions on full show... HELL NO!! They had gone to WATCH a game of  football, and hopefully participate in the singing/cheering/chanting generated by the RBB.

 

Even the kids did little more than glance towards a 15 minute pyrotechnic display, then return their attention to the game. The idea that spectators at a Wanderers game stop in their tracks in delight to watch a flare or smokie is delusional!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

And other than the ONE glass throwing incident during ONE march, what else has the media had to report in the way of anti-social incidents at Wanderers games??? Incidents will not make the media ( as has been pointed out in other posts here) without footage. It is ludicrous for some elements of the media to portray Wanderers supporters as presenting any sort of threat to public safety.  However as long as flares are a highly visible feature of our games, the perception will exist that there are elements of our supporter base who are out to defy authority, and are potentially a threat to the safety of others. And as long as those around them condone this, active support and all WSW fans will potentially suffer.

 

Broken chairs at sfs.

 

You know how they say.. The race that stops Melbourne.

We have the Game that stop Sydney!

 

 

Broken chairs at SFC, whilst hopefully unintended, did not go over well with average community members...and images of this are REALLY easily portrayed as vandalism/willful destruction of public property. The same happened after a Melbourne derby (and may not have been so innocent). Nothing of that nature has happened at Parra Stadium as far as I'm aware, so can't be seen as justifying the huge police presence we experience. 

[MajorMelons]

@westofcentre

I don't get your post at all.

Are you saying that if flares stopped then cops will take an issue with fans for broken chairs? Well if fans break chairs then of course they will.

Are you then saying that cops should not react to anti social behaviour and just lay off?

Or if they are tailing a march it's because of their 'agenda driven bias', and not because it is their job to be present at public events?

I don't mean to come across harsh but your post had me baffled.

Edited October 9, 2013 by MajorMelons

[Wanderboy]

Wendybr - with the understanding that flares are illegal and should not be brought in I can guarantee that police will not lay off if flares stopped.

Can you provide proof or evidence of this? It's easy to blame authority.

 

The cause of the treatment we experience (in the main) is not because of flares. They are a combination of agenda driven bias and the inability of police and authorities to understand and manage active support.

I agree with this statement. For eg. At the Roar semi final, when the march was heading up Marsden street, the police were adamant that nobody was to walk on the footpath. They kept insisting ALL fans stayed on the road.

A group of about 10 Roar fans approached from the rear of the march on the footpath and started hassling in an aggressive way the Wanderers fans at the tail end of the march. Things started to get pretty heated between the two sets of fans and tension was rising. But because these Roar fans were walking along the footpath, the police told them to get onto the road, putting them in the midst of the Wanderers fans. I COULDN'T BELIEVE WHAT THEY'D JUST DONE!! I walked over to the first policeman I saw and said man, you have to get these guys out of here and back onto the footpath. What you've just done is asking for trouble. He spoke to his superior quickly and they did.

My point is, that the fact they even did that in the first place confirms they don't understand the intracacies of active support.

 

 

 

If its not going to be flares its broken chairs, its anti- social behaviour, its limits to banners/instruments its been tailed by police because you want to march as a group.

This is where we need to prove to them that these issues aren't a problem. Our new march route is a great opportunity to give thanks to those that have rallied on our behalf for these concessions, and to prove once and for all that we ARE NOT HOOLIGANS, and to not give the Ray ******* Hadley's of the world any ammunition.

I sat all around the ground last season, except the north terrace, and loved the flares and smokies. But if these are going to mean a crack down on the active support the RBB provides, I'd rather not ever see another one again in my life.

[wendybr]

 

Wendybr - with the understanding that flares are illegal and should not be brought in I can guarantee that police will not lay off if flares stopped.

 

The cause of the treatment we experience (in the main) is not because of flares. They are a combination of agenda driven bias and the inability of police and authorities to understand and manage active support.

 

If its not going to be flares its broken chairs, its anti- social behaviour, its limits to banners/instruments its been tailed by police because you want to march as a group.

Umm, you know this as fact how??? Google RBB from an outsider's look and see what images come up. I despise the dangerous and illegal compensation devices for anatomically challenged children. I go to Wanderland to watch the football, have a beer and have a good time. I've been doing this all my life in the NSL before the A League. I have never been thrown out nor been worried about over zealous security and I have never been into trouble with the law. Everyone is in charge of their own destiny. Every time I see one ripped I'm so very disappointed because some twat has just given my club a bad name, tarnished my game yet again and given the media vultures ammo to bring out these draconian rules which we are all obsessing our time with, instead of looking forward to our season opener in 3 sleeps time. 

 

 

 Agree here dmixtaaa....and admire your phrasing there...  "media vultures" is exactly who are being supplied with the ammunition they so plainly crave to use against WSW and the code in generally.  

[dongle]

wendy and co have a read of the topic i just posted, might give u a different perspective http://www.westsydneyfootball.com/topic/4816-interesting-rant-i-found-on-the-north-terrace-facebook-page/#entry182404

[Guest mickisnot]

westofcentre, on 09 Oct 2013 - 9:38 PM, said:

The cause of the treatment we experience (in the main) is not because of flares. They are a combination of agenda driven bias and the inability of police and authorities to understand and manage active support.

^^^^ --- ALL MY THIS --- ^^^^

 

It's the NRL and AFL backing tabloid magazines to destroy soccer. Don't buy into agenda driven bias.

 

(I've Quoted a few guys below)

 

 

 

Umm, you know this as fact how??? Google RBB from an outsider's look and see what images come up. I despise the dangerous and illegal compensation devices for anatomically challenged children. I go to Wanderland to watch the football, have a beer and have a good time. I've been doing this all my life in the NSL before the A League. I have never been thrown out nor been worried about over zealous security and I have never been into trouble with the law. Everyone is in charge of their own destiny. Every time I see one ripped I'm so very disappointed because some twat has just given my club a bad name, tarnished my game yet again and given the media vultures ammo to bring out these draconian rules which we are all obsessing our time with, instead of looking forward to our season opener in 3 sleeps time. 

 

Sydney has the biggest fireworks display in the Southern hemisphere and this redundant attitude about how people throwing glorified sparklers gets you disappointed? It's called AGENDA DRIVEN BIAS

 

I just want to say I'm a black member and I have no idea how to use a flare and I'm completely indifferent as whether or not they're banned but let me tell you something. I'm more worried about ****, murder, stealing, white collar crimes, astroid hitting the earth, dinosaurs re walking ... etc. Then I am about some pissy sparklers being thrown.

 

This is where we need to prove to them that these issues aren't a problem. Our new march route is a great opportunity to give thanks to those that have rallied on our behalf for these concessions, and to prove once and for all that we ARE NOT HOOLIGANS, and to not give the Ray ****ing Hadley's of the world any ammunition.
I sat all around the ground last season, except the north terrace, and loved the flares and smokies. But if these are going to mean a crack down on the active support the RBB provides, I'd rather not ever see another one again in my life.

 

Dude that Ray Hadley clip was filmed by one of Ray Hadleys mates, and all it contained was just some guy throwing an empty water bottle at a Sydney FC fan. I can't believe people thought that was hooliganism...

[Wanderboy]

Dude that Ray Hadley clip was filmed by one of Ray Hadleys mates, and all it contained was just some guy throwing an empty water bottle at a Sydney FC fan. I can't believe people thought that was hooliganism...

Yeh, ahhhmmmm, ok.

It was a glass mate. Not a water bottle. I do not like what Hadley stands for, but where's your proof of that?

If you know for a fact that it was only a water bottle thrown, turn in the perpetrator then and show some good will towards the Wanderers and active support, and expose Hadley.

I'll bet you don't.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Wanderboy

[dmixtaaa]

 

westofcentre, on 09 Oct 2013 - 9:38 PM, said:

The cause of the treatment we experience (in the main) is not because of flares. They are a combination of agenda driven bias and the inability of police and authorities to understand and manage active support.

^^^^ --- ALL MY THIS --- ^^^^

 

It's the NRL and AFL backing tabloid magazines to destroy soccer. Don't buy into agenda driven bias.

 

(I've Quoted a few guys below)

 

 

Umm, you know this as fact how??? Google RBB from an outsider's look and see what images come up. I despise the dangerous and illegal compensation devices for anatomically challenged children. I go to Wanderland to watch the football, have a beer and have a good time. I've been doing this all my life in the NSL before the A League. I have never been thrown out nor been worried about over zealous security and I have never been into trouble with the law. Everyone is in charge of their own destiny. Every time I see one ripped I'm so very disappointed because some twat has just given my club a bad name, tarnished my game yet again and given the media vultures ammo to bring out these draconian rules which we are all obsessing our time with, instead of looking forward to our season opener in 3 sleeps time. 

 

Sydney has the biggest fireworks display in the Southern hemisphere and this redundant attitude about how people throwing glorified sparklers gets you disappointed? It's called AGENDA DRIVEN BIAS

 

I just want to say I'm a black member and I have no idea how to use a flare and I'm completely indifferent as whether or not they're banned but let me tell you something. I'm more worried about ****, murder, stealing, white collar crimes, astroid hitting the earth, dinosaurs re walking ... etc. Then I am about some pissy sparklers being thrown.

 

This is where we need to prove to them that these issues aren't a problem. Our new march route is a great opportunity to give thanks to those that have rallied on our behalf for these concessions, and to prove once and for all that we ARE NOT HOOLIGANS, and to not give the Ray ****ing Hadley's of the world any ammunition.

I sat all around the ground last season, except the north terrace, and loved the flares and smokies. But if these are going to mean a crack down on the active support the RBB provides, I'd rather not ever see another one again in my life.

 

Dude that Ray Hadley clip was filmed by one of Ray Hadleys mates, and all it contained was just some guy throwing an empty water bottle at a Sydney FC fan. I can't believe people thought that was hooliganism...

 

I think whilst attending a WSW game I'm not likely to be "****, murder, stealing, white collar crimes, astroid hitting the earth, dinosaur" . 

You are dillusional with your AGENDA DRIVEN BIAS

[wendybr]

wendy and co have a read of the topic i just posted, might give u a different perspective http://www.westsydneyfootball.com/topic/4816-interesting-rant-i-found-on-the-north-terrace-facebook-page/#entry182404

 

I did  read it Dongle, before I actually saw your post here...and I am still trying to process what I think of what was said. Quite obviously, the terrace and the bond of friendship formed there is an extremely powerful influence in this man's life. 

 

As I said, I'm still trying to process this, but this level and style of engagement with football seems to be about something very different to what most people look for when they attend a game.  I guess reading this raises more questions for me than provides answers.

[dmixtaaa]

wendy and co have a read of the topic i just posted, might give u a different perspective http://www.westsydneyfootball.com/topic/4816-interesting-rant-i-found-on-the-north-terrace-facebook-page/#entry182404

I read it and still stand firm in my beliefs. I'm an Aussie from an Italian/Aboriginal background who grew up in the Western Suburbs of Sydney. I didn't have it easy like many of us here growing up. I copped it from both sides, wog, coon, abtalian and many more. I didn't know if I was coming or going. I got a boot up the ass from coppers and probably deserved it occasionally but this just made me stronger. I know right from wrong and how to look after myself. Everyone needs to stop this poor me, poor me, I'm the victim attitude. All this negativity is really going to put a downer on this up coming season. The game owes us nothing. Let's just get on with it and be there for our team instead of dragging this whole self pity debacle onto the field.

[Guest mickisnot]

 

Yeh, ahhhmmmm, ok.

It was a glass mate. Not a water bottle. I do not like what Hadley stands for, but where's your proof of that?

If you know for a fact that it was only a water bottle thrown, turn in the perpetrator then and show some good will towards the Wanderers and active support, and expose Hadley.

I'll bet you don't.

 

 

I don't know who is and I don't know particularly care. I already exposed Hadley by telling you that his ex-cop friend filmed, what isn't to think that they infiltrated the crowd? They do that by the way.

 

 

I think whilst attending a WSW game I'm not likely to be "****, murder, stealing, white collar crimes, astroid hitting the earth, dinosaur" . 

You are dillusional with your AGENDA DRIVEN BIAS

 

 

People in America have been raped in active support bays during NFL games, Mexicans have been murdered while supporting their favourite wrestlers. It's not that far fetched.

 

It is agenda driven bias because flares a non issue for the larger part of society and for the 99% of the stadium. As far as I am aware the security guard picks up the flare and places it in the sand box. Why is this a problem for families? Why is this a problem for anyone?

[MajorMelons]

wendy and co have a read of the topic i just posted, might give u a different perspective http://www.westsydneyfootball.com/topic/4816-interesting-rant-i-found-on-the-north-terrace-facebook-page/#entry182404

It was a good read. I'm surprised no one has posted the staff that BWB released this afternoon.

[wendybr]

 

westofcentre, on 09 Oct 2013 - 9:38 PM, said:

The cause of the treatment we experience (in the main) is not because of flares. They are a combination of agenda driven bias and the inability of police and authorities to understand and manage active support.

^^^^ --- ALL MY THIS --- ^^^^

 

It's the NRL and AFL backing tabloid magazines to destroy soccer. Don't buy into agenda driven bias.

 

(I've Quoted a few guys below)

 

 

Umm, you know this as fact how??? Google RBB from an outsider's look and see what images come up. I despise the dangerous and illegal compensation devices for anatomically challenged children. I go to Wanderland to watch the football, have a beer and have a good time. I've been doing this all my life in the NSL before the A League. I have never been thrown out nor been worried about over zealous security and I have never been into trouble with the law. Everyone is in charge of their own destiny. Every time I see one ripped I'm so very disappointed because some twat has just given my club a bad name, tarnished my game yet again and given the media vultures ammo to bring out these draconian rules which we are all obsessing our time with, instead of looking forward to our season opener in 3 sleeps time. 

 

Sydney has the biggest fireworks display in the Southern hemisphere and this redundant attitude about how people throwing glorified sparklers gets you disappointed? It's called AGENDA DRIVEN BIAS

 

I just want to say I'm a black member and I have no idea how to use a flare and I'm completely indifferent as whether or not they're banned but let me tell you something. I'm more worried about ****, murder, stealing, white collar crimes, astroid hitting the earth, dinosaurs re walking ... etc. Then I am about some pissy sparklers being thrown.

 

This is where we need to prove to them that these issues aren't a problem. Our new march route is a great opportunity to give thanks to those that have rallied on our behalf for these concessions, and to prove once and for all that we ARE NOT HOOLIGANS, and to not give the Ray ****ing Hadley's of the world any ammunition.

I sat all around the ground last season, except the north terrace, and loved the flares and smokies. But if these are going to mean a crack down on the active support the RBB provides, I'd rather not ever see another one again in my life.

 

Dude that Ray Hadley clip was filmed by one of Ray Hadleys mates, and all it contained was just some guy throwing an empty water bottle at a Sydney FC fan. I can't believe people thought that was hooliganism...

 

 

Did you mean you are indifferent if they are banned, or indifferent if they are used.  If you are indifferent about them being used, I can't really understand how you would be prepared to sacrifice what the RBB has already lost  (tifos, pullovers etc throughout last season) and what else might end up being lost, just so that some people keep their ability to throw some "pissy sparklers" about.  

 

And I'm sure we'd all like to see police out  stopping crime rather than spending time in excessive numbers standing around at Wanderers games.

[theguyyouwishyouwere]

don't know about anyone else, but i'm seriously thinking of becoming a copper so i can get a ticket to all these football matches

[ManfredSchaefer]

 

 

Yeh, ahhhmmmm, ok.

It was a glass mate. Not a water bottle. I do not like what Hadley stands for, but where's your proof of that?

If you know for a fact that it was only a water bottle thrown, turn in the perpetrator then and show some good will towards the Wanderers and active support, and expose Hadley.

I'll bet you don't.

 

 

I don't know who is and I don't know particularly care. I already exposed Hadley by telling you that his ex-cop friend filmed, what isn't to think that they infiltrated the crowd? They do that by the way.

 

I think whilst attending a WSW game I'm not likely to be "****, murder, stealing, white collar crimes, astroid hitting the earth, dinosaur" . 

You are dillusional with your AGENDA DRIVEN BIAS

 

 

People in America have been raped in active support bays during NFL games, Mexicans have been murdered while supporting their favourite wrestlers. It's not that far fetched.

 

It is agenda driven bias because flares a non issue for the larger part of society and for the 99% of the stadium. As far as I am aware the security guard picks up the flare and places it in the sand box. Why is this a problem for families? Why is this a problem for anyone?

 

Because it is illegal to light any flare unless as an attempt to attract attention in an emergency situation. In case you think this is some conspiracy against us all take a look at the NSW Government's Maritime Services site here and its statement on the legality of flares outside such situations.

 

Now if you want to complain about the law do something more productive than getting all excited about some kind of agenda driven bias. Write to your local member, your federal member. Lobby political parties, develop links with similar minded people and use the same political and legal avenues to either challenge the politicians who enacted the law and then defeat them so you can introduce your preferred legislation,   or go to court and challenge the law there so that the pollies have to redraft it.

 

We all get the message about there being a anti-Football agenda in some circles of Australian society. But FFS why go on and on about something that is illegal and that has time and time again when done at a game given those people who want an excuse to have a go at our sport and all of us. If you want to light flares and be a brave and cool individual think about a career in the navy or customs; you can do it under their conditions to your hearts content. At football games, in Australia as much as it may run counter to international supporters customs (or indeed anywhere outside a legally appropriate context) its just the kind of bone-headed illegal act that tars all of us with the image of being hooligans.